I cry for the British football fans

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by STEED

You don't here this sort of crap from America and good on them for putting up their country's flag well done.

My buddy lived in Californa for a long time (he grew up there) and tons of buildings that had flag poles (Schools, City Hall etc) would have the Flag of Californa under the US Flag. Where he now works (in NY) they have a Canadian flag right below the US Flag because they have a plant in Canada too. One truck driver (not employed by them) complained about to their company and to his union so they called the trucking company and that guy isn't going to be making runs to their plant ever again.

Here in NY you see NY State flags everywhere (I drove by a gas station that had a few for three years). Some goverment sponsored buildings fly the old 15 star/15 stripe flag!

[Skybird]

Am I wrong or is it widening?http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...258613,00.html

[STEED]

All this bloody crap is whipped up by the Political Correctness lobby a bunch of faceless and gutless white middle class scum, who got nothing in there sad lives so they go around whipping up all this BS. This bloody crap has gone to far, these scumbags are the real problem causing all these bloody problems.



PC makes my blood boil.

[TLAM Strike]

Please someone burn a Saudi Flag in the streets of London in front of a mosque!

[TteFAboB]

Who the hell falls for this cheap, ridiculous blackmail?!

Muslim group demands flags to be taken down.

Fool bastard obeys.

Muslim wins.

Now, if you were to resist, and the Muslim group decided to take further action, YOU win, because a terror attack, molotovs or even stoning windows would degenerate the image of ALL Muslims/groups! And even possibly trigger a change in legislation.



Ok class, back to Sun Tzu 101: How to take one step back and two steps forward.

[CB..]

that's why i reckon we all lost the moral battle when we agreed to remove the infamous "cartoon" from publications- NOT because Muslims objected--but because Muslims threw petrol bombs at embassys--

we allowed the civilised peacefull satirical "protest" of a published cartoon
to be over-ruled by violent mob terror and social hooliganism--

we did not stand behind the civilised expression of disent--one which the over whelming majority of neutral citizens felt expressed a perfectly valid point....

as long as we deny the rights of peacefull citizens in favour of violent ones-were allways going to come out worse--

the pen is only mightier than the sword -if we make it mightier than the sword--

came acros this poem the other day which said it well--


man depicts religious figure with bomb on head--
man implies religious figure condones violence--
religious men protest this ---
man believes religious figure condones violence--
man flys airliner thru building-
religious men do not protest this--

[Skybird]

I loved that cartoon with the bomb-headed Muhammad, I immediately was reminded of the biography of the historical true Muhammad, and Islam's unprecedented aggressive history. Judging the man by his deeds and sermons, that picture was 100% right on target and no carricature at all.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by CB..

came acros this poem the other day which said it well--


man depicts religious figure with bomb on head--
man implies religious figure condones violence--
religious men protest this ---
man believes religious figure condones violence--
man flys airliner thru building-
religious men do not protest this--

Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in the local rag a while ago, it had a cartoonist opening a letter that said: "You insinuated that our religion is murderous therefore we are sending some terrorists to kill you."

[CB..]

yup
as long as we reward non peacefull violent protest
with a goodie bag containing what it wants...
and
punish civilised and intelligent and even artistic forms of protest
with censure...

you can't be surprised if you end up with more violent "protests"

happens all the way thru life--

it's the squeaking hinge that gets the oil..

we should have dug our heels in and said tough-
or made such a huge deal out of setting up a very high profile commitee to meet with the leaders of the muslim community to discuss the issues raised by the cartoon, that by the end of it no one was in any doubt about just how serious we take the righst of peace full citizens to make lawfull and intelligent protests ...

stead we just slapped the cartoonist round the head and handed the whole moral ground to the idiots---again--

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Am I wrong or is it widening?http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...258613,00.html

Do you have evidence from a major news source to support this article you have linked to? I question the accuracy of the article and more importantly what it is implying. I work in the Airfreight Logistics industry and I'm based at London Heathrow airport (LHR). I have seen a mass of St George flags all over the place and I've asked some business associates who run airline cargo offices at LHR and they have told me that they have not heard of any such ban. I also phoned up BAA themselves who told me that no such ban exists within the terminals. What they did say to me however was that the construction companies involved in the building of the new LHR Terminal 5 have banned any flags from being hung or displayed at the worksite. The reason given for this was that items such as flags pose a occupational health and safety risk. They said that the flags might get caught in the wind and fly on to a runway.

I am struggling to find another news source which makes the same claims as the article you linked to. It mentions the Sun tabloid newspaper here in the UK and I have now looked at this article. I can't find anywhere in that Sun story or elsewhere anything to suggest that Heathrow Airport or pub chains across the UK banned the St George Cross flag because the extremist group al-Muhajiroun threatened these organisations as the article you linked to Skybird seems to suggest.

I did come across this article from a couple of year ago in which a pub banned the flag because of what they called, it's association with football violence and the BNP. This is something that I find ridiculous. Quite frankly I don't know why England doesn't have a St George Day bank holiday once every year. Why on earth this country has allowed the BNP to hold it's own flags hostage is beyond me. Take it bloody well back.

As to my own personal experiences within the British Muslim community I haven't found either a member of my extended family or a friend for that matter who has a problem with the flag. Heck, one of my brother-in-laws, Saraj, has his car covered in St George flags. He seems quite happy to pay thru the pocket with the increased fuel consumption as a result of the drag created by them flying in the wind. The Muslims I know and my own opinion are best summed up by what London Barking Mosque Secretary Ashfaq Siddique said in response to Barking Borough Councils action to stop the local fire stations hoisting up the flag. He said “We’re not offended — it’s a national flag!” I of course won't fly the St George flag because I am backing my own country Australia who yesterday did well for a 1 all draw with the number 3 ranked side in the world, the Netherlands.

So what say you Skybird?

[Skybird]

I still refer to two newspapers and ask if I am wrong in that it is widening, or not? My impression is coming from these two, and I said so. It has been mentioned shortly on a German TV program too some time ago during the increasing event reports on the world cup, but that will not satisfy you.

Maybe you better ask that question to other guys living in Britain.

If some political idiot in Germany recently demanded that the German anthem should be supplemented with a Turkish version, I expect such follies going on in other countries as well. And Britain was amongst the loudest demanding that the famous cartoons never should have been printed and newsppaers being forced to turn silent, so why not there, too.

[STEED]

The fight to keep flying the flag
By James Clarke
BBC News, England
The World Cup has not even started and already a familiar sight is spreading on the streets of England - cars and houses flying the St George's flag.
For the tournament four years ago, and even during Euro 2004, flags on cars seemed accepted as one way of showing support for the team and pride in being English.
But this time round car flags have been branded dangerous to motorcyclists and horses and claims have been made they will increase fuel usage.
Maybe worst of all their owners have become the butt of jokes, with one common line being that the flags are fitted to cars to identify substandard drivers.
'Party poopers'
Meanwhile some taxi drivers have had to fight to be allowed to fix flags to their cabs, school pupils have been threatened with a ban on carrying flags and people flying flags from buildings warned to keep within advertising laws.
Any turning of the tide against flying the flag will come as a disappointment to those who spent years trying to stop it being hijacked by the far right.




Mark Perryman of Englandfans, the official England supporters' club, said: "I live in Haringey in London and I've seen people flying England flags, but also flags from Poland, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica, Angola and this morning I was overtaken by someone flying a Brazilian flag.
"I've got absolutely no problem with that, it's a multicultural society and I can't see why people should have a problem with supporting England.
"I think about a third of the people I have seen flying the England flag have been black or Asian."
But many of the objections to the St George's cross this year have been based on safety concerns rather than political worries.
The RAC Foundation and the British Motorcyclists Federation (BMF) issued a "flag flying charter" with advice for motorists on how to best display flags on their vehicles, concentrating on making sure they are designed for car use, secure and not blocking views of the road.
BMF spokesman Jeff Stone said: "We don't want to be seen as party poopers but a wayward flag hitting a motorcyclist in the face could be a serious own goal."
'Feel-good factor'
The RAC Foundation pointed out any driver whose flag falls from their car could face prosecution under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Act 1986, which demands "vehicles, parts or accessories shall be such that they are not likely to cause danger to other road users".
But a spokesman for the foundation added: "The feel-good factor of getting behind the national team can reduce road-rage - there is evidence flag-fliers let other flag-fliers pull out, and are more forgiving if they make a mistake."


In Hampshire, police received reports from horse owners saying flapping flags were startling their animals.
Pc Derek Grist, equine liaison officer, said: "I do have concerns that motorists may cause an animal to bolt and possibly cause injury to itself, its rider or innocent passers-by."
Taxi drivers in Ashfield in Nottinghamshire have been banned from flying flags from their passenger windows amid fears they could poke passengers in the eye or fly off and hit someone - though flags on the driver's side of the car are still permitted.
Cheltenham Borough Council originally banned its cabbies from flying flags for safety reasons, only for councillors to change their minds after a public outcry.

I was at Old Trafford last week and I reckon about 25% of the cars had a flag on them
Mark Perryman, Englandfans


And Dr Antonio Filippone of Manchester University said the drag caused by flags on cars would cause the vehicles to burn extra fuel.
But it is not only flags on cars which have received criticism - a Wearside man who covered the front of his house with England flags, plus the odd union flag, was told by his housing association to take some down after complaints from neighbours.
Among those with a flag on display are Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell, who has two flags on her official car, and many fans still see flying the flag as an integral part of following the national team.
When England played Hungary in a World Cup warm-up friendly last week, about 50 fans arrived at Old Trafford nine hours before kick-off to place 35,000 red or white plastic rectangles on seats at either end of the ground so fans could hold them aloft to form a St George's cross design before kick off.


And a giant England flag which, folded up, takes eight people to carry and is too big to fit through stadium turnstiles, is being taken to Germany by a group of fans keen to show pride in their country.
When England won the World Cup on home soil in 1966 most of the flags being waved in the crowd were Union flags rather than St George's crosses - a tradition which remained in place by the time England made the semi-finals in Italy in 1990.
It was only 10 years ago, when Euro 96 saw England host a major tournament for the first time in 30 years, that the flag of England replaced its British equivalent as the supporters' flag of choice.
Mr Perryman said: "Two things happened in 1996. Labour didn't come into power until the following year but already people knew they were probably going to bring in devolution, and also we played Scotland for the first time in years, so people wanted to celebrate being English rather than British."
But what is his view of the safety fears over flying the flag? "I was at Old Trafford last week and I reckon about 25% of the cars had a flag on them. I didn't see a sea of people on the pavement blinded by them."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...nd/5041788.stm

Published: 2006/06/06 11:34:00 GMT

© BBC MMVI

This PC Madness has gone too far.

I have declared war on Political Madness who's with me?

[Konovalov]

I know it is really popular to blame this flag issue on the "multi-culti" or "immigrant" crowds and of course it is always popular here on this forum to heap sh_t on Muslims in general. Here is further evidence in addition to my earlier post on the root causes of this flag banning issue taken from the Workplace Law website:

Safety fears over England car flags
5 June 2006
news item

With less than a week until the start of the World Cup the debate over the use of England flags on cars heats up.

Are employers who ban the use of the flags kill joys? Or, considering the fact that employers could be ultimately liable if there was an accident involving a flag coming off the car of an employee driving for work, are they just being health and safety conscious?

Hampshire police has called on football-supporting motorists to take care when flying England flags from their vehicles. Drivers have been warned that they could face an assault charge if a flag was to fly off and hit a pedestrian. PC Derek Grist commented: "We are not trying to be killjoys, all we ask for is a little bit of consideration.''

Meanwhile the British Motorcyclists' Federation (BMF) and the RAC have warned drivers that if they want to show their support for England's football team they must make sure their flags are specially designed for car use and secured safely.

In a joint statement the organisations warned of the danger of the flags, which are often clamped into closed windows, coming loose. A spot check of the A-13 dual carriageway east of London showed an average of three fallen flags per mile, the RAC said, with a concentration at spots like entrance ramps where motorists speed up.

The decision of whether to ban the flags is a controversial one. Some employers have already taken the step of banning their use. Construction workers at Heathrow’s Terminal 5 have been told that flags are a health and safety risk because they might get caught in the wind and fly on to a runway. Northampton Borough Council has also banned their staff from flying the England flag from council owned vehicles for health and safety reasons.

Taxi drivers in Cheltenham had originally been threatened with having licences revoked if they flew a flag, but the decision has now been revoked. They are not the only employers to make such a u-turn, Tesco’s had originally banned flags in its delivery trucks but was forced to change its policy following public protests.






Mark Perryman of the England fans supporters' club commented:

"If there is a serious health and safety issue it needs to be taken seriously. But I was at Old Trafford for England's last match and about 25% of the cars carried flags. I didn't see any of them flying off and blinding people."

Roger Vincent, of Rospa, said:

"People need to be sensible how they display the flags so they are not sticking out the side of their vehicles where they could hit pedestrians or cyclists. We are also concerned about some people putting very big flags on their cars."

If employers do allow employees to display flags that are used for business purposes they would be wise to ensure that employees comply with the following suggestions from the RAC.

• Ensure that the flag is specially designed for car use.
• Position it so that it can’t interfere with the driver’s vision.
• Give passengers a warning not to open the window – it’s easy to forget!
• Make sure the flag is securely held in the gap between the window and the door.
• ake the flags in before driving on the motorway - driving at speeds above 50mph can shorten the life of the flag to less than one month – and the final is not till 9 July.

Bottom line is that St George flags are everywhere at the moment here in England and rightly so.

[Skybird]

And both reasons for the flag-debate are exlcuding to each other?

German TV news, yesterday, pedestrians being asked on boulevards in Berlin on wether it is proper or not to show flags in public. Most said, during a cup torunsment it is okay. Some said even during the cup, it sghould not be done with respect to other nationalities, guests, and immigrants (maybe a quarter said so, I did not count). Nevertheless I see some German flags in my neighbourhood since beginning of this week. And as many Union Jacks and England-flags as well, having a street with British family-houses close by

I occasionally meet one and the same guy when walking there, a British officer. We have made it a running joke to estimate the outcome of a German-English soccer duel during the cup. Currently the score is like this: according to him, we will need to dig out the German team after the match is over. But as we all know, I may be closer to the truth when saying that after the match we need to ask Nasa to get the English back from the moon.

[CB..]

Meanwhile the British Motorcyclists' Federation (BMF) and the RAC have warned drivers that if they want to show their support for England's football team they must make sure their flags are specially designed for car use and secured safely.

In a joint statement the organisations warned of the danger of the flags, which are often clamped into closed windows, coming loose. A spot check of the A-13 dual carriageway east of London showed an average of three fallen flags per mile, the RAC said, with a concentration at spots like entrance ramps where motorists speed up.

i'm an old motorcyclist
whilst i have to admit that having a flag on you car on a motorway is potentaily pretty dangerous---and a bit daft--
any where else i can't really see a problem--at least you can't fail to see the car coming LOL so you can be a little more cautious around it

any way i come from the old school of motorcyclists---
half the time you arrive at your destination to find some-thing some-where has fallen of your bike so who am i to complain--:rotfl:
it's supposed to be FUN---
these uber rich buisness men on hugely expensive racing replica bikes
are FAR more likely to cause an accident than some dude with a flag on his car--

in my day if your bike cost more than a house you got laughed out of the pub---