Midway - the Battle that never is?

[Red Devil]

Found myself on June 3 1942 at Midway, so waited. Got message telling me attacks undergoing at Midway - erm, no there isn't. All carriers were not in port, there are 2 in port right now.

Off a history site I got the lat and long of the 4 x Jap carrier fleet, went there - nothing. Got coords for Soryu carrier, damaged by bombing - nope not there.

When I first started using this sim back in the day (2007), I found the four carriers and sank three, never seen them since, or any signs of anything untoward at Midway.

[propbeanie]

which mod(s) if any are you using? TMO with lurker_hlb3's RSRDC on top usually did pretty good with it, but if you edited his files at all in the ME, it will ruin the "timing" of everything. I do not recall though if he has the actual attack on Midway Atoll itself in the battle, but he does have both the Midway carriers, as well as the Dutch Harbor carriers represented, though with substituted CV vessels. Since he has the groups spawn over by their "historical" starting positions, you don't have to worry so much about being within their spawning range if you're by Midway itself. Even the stock game has a representation of the battle, though it looks like someone was in a rush to get the game out the door, and groups show up anywhere from January 3rd through June 6th, 1942...

[Red Devil]

no games mods, just torps and map

[jimmbbo]

I had been wondering the same thing, and after several tries, was able to locate screening DDs and CAs of either Kondo's invasion force or Yamamoto's Main force WNW west of Midway.... Had to leave the game to do some traveling, but was pleased to have found the fleet... Could make a semi-career of schlepping around Midway looking for the other fleets. Stock v 1.5 CD version

[Barkerov]

I found it once, playing RFB with the RSRD campaign mod. It was very entertaining. For example, before I came into range of the carriers (or more precisely they came into my range cos they're travelling at 30+ knots) I spotted a large number of aircraft approaching. I assumed this was one of the strike packages which made sense to me. However, they also spotted me and every single one of them decided to bomb my boat instead of their real target.
It was ridiculous.



Then when I finally got the chance to fire at one of the carriers, my perfect spread ran out of fuel some 50 yards short of the hull


I immediately deleted that particular save.

[Red Devil]

I was approaching Pearl on one occasion. suddenly we got damaged by an attacking US plane.

[Barkerov]

This is why after I spot a plane I immediately start using my own dive planes.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Barkerov

This is why after I spot a plane I immediately start using my own dive planes.

no disrespect to our brethren here but the USA is very good with blue on blue.

Originally Posted by Red Devil

no games mods, just torps and map

i suggest you start by using my GFO mod

it tries to fix as many of the issues and bugs still in the game but not alter the difficulty or game play in any way unless its to fix something unrealistic

that will cure many stock bugs the game has and dramatically improve the game for you but its most likely not going to fix issues you find with the campaign files like you described

[Red Devil]

cheers

edit: well midway came and went, nothing, not a sign of jap ships, two US fleets shown on map, and one solitary jap plane about 800mn nw of Midway.

[propbeanie]

There are several ways to look at this... Look in the Mission Editor and load the BattleOfMidway.mis file in the Data / Campaigns / Campaign folder, and you'll see that three of the five IJN groups are configured to start on 1942-01-01, with the scenario dated 1942-06-04. Most of the other groups start on 1942-06-04. Some might have the "EvolveFromEntryDate" status set to "true", but most are "false"... Now, use the playback feature in the upper-right of the screen, and set it to begin playing the scenario at 1942-06-01... At 0600 hours on 1942-06-04, this is what you'll get:


Battle of Midway in the Mission Editor, 0600 19420601

Looks about correct! However, the ME player started on 1942-06-01... so what happens if you started it on say 1942-01-01, like some of the groups in the mission file do? Why, those groups would start moving on whatever particular day you start the career on, if it's after 1942-01-01. If you start on December 7th, 1941, then the groups configured to run on 1941-01-01 start moving on that date. The others start on 1942-06-01. What about doing the Single (Quick) Missions version? The Singe (Quick) Missions version does NOT use the Battle of Midway.mis file in the Campaign folder - it uses its own in the Single Mission folder... That's right, the devs didn't trust their own Campaign file to run correctly... ahem (it'd be difficult to anyway)... anyway, if you're in the campaign, it will not function correctly in Stock nor most mods. What happens is that most of the groups are either long-gone, or are yet to arrive...

Besides that, even if you manage to have it "time" correctly, look at the mileage, or distance between things there. Midway is the middle little light blue smear of the three toward the bottom of the picture. Look at the kilometer scale to the left. The IJN carrier group there then is roughly 450km (or roughly 250 nautical miles) northwest of Midway. The two US carrier groups are roughly 900-100km (or about 5-600 nautical miles) north of Midway. There is about that same 450km between the IJN and the US groups. That is a LOT of ocean for a submarine to find something in, even if you have relatively accurate "intel"...

[Red Devil]

the intel I had was from true history. Prop your map makes no mention of the fleet approaching from the south west Or Kamatsu's ships to the south. On this map I was almost exactly in position ahead of the First Carrier Fleet (Nagumo) and all airborne craft should have past over or nearby.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

What about doing the Single (Quick) Missions version? The Singe (Quick) Missions version does NOT use the Battle of Midway.mis file in the Campaign folder - it uses its own in the Single Mission folder... That's right, the devs didn't trust their own Campaign file to run correctly...

Too funny. I'd picked up the three coordinates of the Battle off Samar from Single Missions but attacking under cover of air support never worked as the timing never matched up. Now I know why.

Originally Posted by Barkerov

I found it once, playing RFB with the RSRD campaign mod. It was very entertaining. For example, before I came into range of the carriers (or more precisely they came into my range cos they're travelling at 30+ knots) I spotted a large number of aircraft approaching. I assumed this was one of the strike packages which made sense to me. However, they also spotted me and every single one of them decided to bomb my boat instead of their real targets.

That is truly hilarious. Just think: if you'd been off northern Oahu one sleepy Sunday morning, we might never have had a WWII.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

the intel I had was from true history. Prop your map makes no mention of the fleet approaching from the south west Or Kamatsu's ships to the south. On this map I was almost exactly in position ahead of the First Carrier Fleet (Nagumo) and all airborne craft should have past over or nearby.

"True history" is disregarded by the game, hence you've got "bad intel"... just joshin'

But seriously, the other groups are in the mission, I just zoomed in close enough to show you that the mission file in the campaign, at first blush, looks reasonable. However, as you mention, those other groups are out further, some quite a bit further, and won't show on that map zoom level for a good while longer yet. Of which, if you are in career mode, they would have already run and been gone. The file works OK in the ME player, but not in career mode. Also, the carriers in the game do not "launch" planes for land targets. Only for "enemy targets", which would be ships and subs - only. No dogfights either. The airplanes usually have to be included as groups, if you want them to show. For an example of that, look at the SingleMission file for the Battle of Midway. They put airplanes in it.

[Red Devil]

Roger that Prop. Due to a bug in a save, I started again and soon came back to Midway this time closer to the 4th June 42, "alert midway under attack' - erm no it isn't. That's where I am. I was parked just to the NW of Midway, ships and land in sight - nothing. So I gave up and went towards Tokyo, still no sign of anything. Got off Japan, spotted a convoy and took out 5 ships before coming back to Midway. Still on suspected IJN route, still nothing, still no planes, nowt!