US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 463

Dowly · 03-29-19, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schiff

“My colleagues might think it’s OK that the Russians offered dirt on the Democratic candidate for president as part of what’s described as the Russian government’s effort to help the Trump campaign. You might think that’s OK.

“My colleagues might think it’s OK that when that was offered to the son of the president, who had a pivotal role in the campaign, that the president’s son did not call the FBI; he did not adamantly refuse that foreign help – no, instead that son said that he would ‘love’ the help with the Russians.

“You might think it’s OK that he took that meeting. You might think it’s OK that Paul Manafort, the campaign chair, someone with great experience running campaigns, also took that meeting. You might think it’s OK that the president’s son-in-law also took that meeting. You might think it’s OK that they concealed it from the public. You might think it’s OK that their only disappointment after that meeting was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn’t better. You might think that’s OK.

“You might think it’s OK that when it was discovered, a year later, that they then lied about that meeting and said that it was about adoptions. You might think that it’s OK that it was reported that the president helped dictate that lie. You might think that’s OK. I don’t.

“You might think it’s OK that the campaign chairman of a presidential campaign would offer information about that campaign to a Russian oligarch in exchange for money or debt forgiveness. You might think that’s OK, I don’t.

“You might think it’s OK that that campaign chairman offered polling data to someone linked to Russian intelligence. I don’t think that’s OK.

“You might think it’s OK that the president himself called on Russia to hack his opponent’s emails, if they were listening. You might think it’s OK that later that day, in fact, the Russians attempted to hack a server affiliated with that campaign. I don’t think that’s OK.

“You might think it’s OK that the president’s son-in-law sought to establish a secret back channel of communication with the Russians through a Russian diplomatic facility. I don’t think that’s OK.

“You might think it’s OK that an associate of the president made direct contact with the GRU through Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks, that is considered a hostile intelligence agency. You might think it’s OK that a senior campaign official was instructed to reach that associate and find out what that hostile intelligence agency had to say in terms of dirt on his opponent.

“You might think it’s OK that the national security adviser designate secretly conferred with the Russian ambassador about undermining U.S. sanctions, and you might think it’s OK that he lied about it to the FBI.

“You might say that’s all OK, that’s just what you need to do to win. But I don’t think it’s OK. I don’t think it’s OK. I think it’s immoral, I think it’s unethical, I think it’s unpatriotic and, yes, I think it’s corrupt – and evidence of collusion.”

“Now I have always said that the question of whether this amounts to proof of conspiracy was another matter. Whether the special counsel could prove beyond a reasonable doubt the proof of that crime would be up to the special counsel, and I would accept his decision, and I do. He’s a good and honorable man, and he is a good prosecutor.

“But I do not think that conduct, criminal or not, is OK. And the day we do think that’s OK is the day we will look back and say that is the day that America lost its way.”

“And I will tell you one more thing that is apropos of the hearing today: I don’t think it’s OK that during a presidential campaign Mr. Trump sought the Kremlin’s help to consummate a real estate deal in Moscow that would make him a fortune – according to the special counsel, hundreds of millions of dollars. I don’t think it’s OK to conceal it from the public. I don’t think it’s OK that he advocated a new and more favorable policy towards the Russians even as he was seeking the Russians’ help, the Kremlin’s help to make money. I don’t think it’s OK that his attorney lied to our committee. There is a different word for that than collusion, and it’s called ‘compromise.’

That about sums it up.

Rockstar · 03-29-19, 08:07 AM

Ummm news flash everything was summed up when after almost two years of investigation Mueller turned his report. Which was I think last week or so ago?

All what you just posted is more political hay generated by Schiff when Republicans generated their own political hay by calling for Schiff to resign his position. Furthermore if you look closely and it has nothing to with Mar-Largo.

u crank · 03-29-19, 08:16 AM

Well it is nice that Schiff has an opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. What I find remarkable about Schiff and others is that for two years these people held Robert Mueller in the highest regard and now that he has come to a conclusion that they don't like he is no longer relevant. A two-year-long investigation that issued 2,800 subpoenas, interviewed 500 witnesses, and used nearly 300 wiretaps and pen registers is not good enough. All of the things mention in that post have been investigated. If someone like Mueller and a crack team of lawyers and investigators can't find damning proof of Schiff's accusations then what? Are we to take a politician's word for it? Not the most trustworthy or unbiased people around.

And of course that's what this is. A political game. The court of public opinion and the court of law are two different things. Schiff's game is aimed directly at the 2020 election.

In the American system of law you are innocent until proven guilty. And if you are charged with a crime and found not guilty, you are still not guilty. If a prosecutor cannot find enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, you are still not guilty. Schiff opinion is irrelevant. For a member of a Congressional committee to appear on TV over 227 times a staggering 26 hours to promote himself and his accusations is shameful. My guess is he has higher office aspirations. He is doing the Democratic Party and the eventual 2020 Dem candidate no favors.

He is, and I'm trying to be polite, a slimball. I don’t think that’s OK.

Dowly · 03-29-19, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Ummm news flash everything was summed up when after almost two years of investigation Mueller turned his report. Which was I think last week or so ago?

Mueller himself only cleared Trump/campaign from DIRECT coordination/collusion with the Russian Government in two very specific ways of election interference. Obstruction decision was made by Barr, whose past beliefs have it that a President can't obstruct justice.

Nothing else has been answered at this time. What are you afraid of? If the report clears Trump, why not release it for all to read?

Sure is a lot to hide for innocent people.

Rockstar · 03-29-19, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Mueller himself only cleared Trump/campaign from DIRECT coordination/collusion with the Russian Government in two very specific ways of election interference. Obstruction decision was made by Barr, whose past beliefs have it that a President can't obstruct justice.

Nothing else has been answered at this time. What are you afraid of? If the report clears Trump, why not release it for all to read?

Sure is a lot to hide for innocent people.

So much too do, so little time eh? Let us know how your investigation goes OK?

Dowly · 03-29-19, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Let us know how your investigation goes OK?

I promise to keep you updated.

vienna · 03-29-19, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Old testament Poverb

"Do not listen to the voice of a jester"

Ya know, I just can't seem to find that Proverb in my Concordance nor in a Google search for OT quotes; got any cite to back it up? Just curious...

I did find a reference to the quote on a webpage:

Welcome To Revival Hotline --

http://www.revivalhotline.com/

The site seems to be a bit of a screed against a Revivalist healer and the quote is given and, like your own post, is unattributed to any Biblical source, OT or NT. The site use the quote to condemn a faith healer who may have been staging phony healings...

<O>

Rockstar · 03-30-19, 05:20 AM

“If tragedy is about the fact that people are mortal, then comedy is about the fools we make of ourselves on the way to the grave.”
― Ryan Bishop, Comedy and Cultural Critique in American Film

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/fools

Bilge_Rat · 03-30-19, 11:58 AM

Schiff is a tool and a fool.

All of this is now academic, there will be no indictment of POTUS or impeachment.

Trump will run in 2020 and has 66-75% chance of being reelected IMHO.

The dems can keep trying to spin collusion, obstruction, campaign finance violation, etc. all they want, but at this point it it so much political hot air.

eddie · 03-30-19, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Schiff is a tool and a fool.

All of this is now academic, there will be no indictment of POTUS or impeachment.

Trump will run in 2020 and has 66-75% chance of being reelected IMHO.

The dems can keep trying to spin collusion, obstruction, campaign finance violation, etc. all they want, but at this point it it so much political hot air.

Funny how you can go after Schiff, when you have such big slim balls on the Republican side, starting with Trump himself, then his 2 pussy sons, Old McConnell should be down on a farm, Graham isn't worth blowing his arse to hell, and Nunes is a butt kisser and momma's boy,lol

August · 04-09-19, 08:57 PM

Hawk66 · 04-21-19, 01:58 AM

Does one need the Miller report to judge the current administration ? The applied policy is just the opposite for preparing the country for the future. The ones of the administration ,which had that in mind, have left.

@August. You do not simply understand. It is not only about Trump and it is not about that he get only reelected one time at most. It is the corruption within a democracy and the lost faith of people in that this system is able to handle the challenges.

No western major democracy prepares currently for shifting and adapting the economy . This is the major source that people are unhappy - not only in the US but also for instance in the eastern parts of Germany. The old industries are gone and there is this "Winner takes it all" (digital) economy, which results in having big winners but also a lot of big loosers. Some of the big winners are now realizing that the current system might not last forever...https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0cc40ae0aa1b.

I can only point to the book, written by some MIT folks "The second machine age", which outlined the challenges, dangers but also ideas for solutions for the current (economical) struggle a couple of years ago already. It is a blueprint why someone like Trump was able to be elected and the current situation in Europe.

Skybird · 04-21-19, 05:22 AM

The Mueller report is anything but a clearence of Trump. By current legal rules there will likely be no more consequences he has to fear, but Mueller made it clear apparently, that he does not want his report beign understood as an acquittal, and that the WH did a lot to hinder and obstruct the exmaination. Witnesses were found lying, the president tried to get Mueller fired.

A clean royal first grade acquittal looks very different.

I would even say that due to this report'S inf atc findings and conclusions, the air smells even more rotten in the WH now. But how the air smeels, and what ios possible by the letter of the laws, are two different things, unfortunately. As I see it, a guilty man escapes here. Not the first one, will not be the last one.

Russia succeeded in destablising, tremendously, two major Western powers and eroding and/or paralysing them from within and corrupting their political structures. Brexit and Trumpian polarization will be named as two of the most successful intel destabilistion operations of Russian services ever, they did not manage that success during the cold war. The Crimean operation ("little green men") not even counted. From a purely technical point of view: congratulations. But every fifth american or so even believes it is indeed something good!

Its like Aikido. Dont use your own power - take the opponents power and direct it against himself. That needs not so much own power, but clean technical skill, its a difficult technique. Putin, this old KGB fox, excels in that. And so many people in America buy it!

Hawk66 · 04-21-19, 06:17 AM

I agree mostly to what you said, Skybird, but we should not make the mistake to think that European people are smarter than the people of the other side of the Atlantic. See the situation in our own country, see that AFD (which has also strong ties to the Kremlin) is now leading the polls in eastern Germany. See how Putins propaganda has succeeded (I know that it is not the only reason) that the Social democratic party manages preventing to raise the defense budget significantly and the conservatives simply do not want to endanger the coalition since there is no support by the people for this (defense)...

...what is especially worrying to me is that a lot of young people buy parts of the Putin's propaganda, since they have no link to the cold war and its roots and the continuous struggle between freedom and dictatorship. They think it (being free) is free lunch.

Rockstar · 04-21-19, 06:22 AM

Skybird, I think that its not about truth or doing what is right this is just the American way of politics in its purest form. Nobody is interested in seeing it end and will continue to use the distraction for political purposes right up to the 2020 election. Ol' Noam seems to think it will very well hand president Trump a second term.

03-29-19, 08:16 AM	#6933
u crank Old enough to know better Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 11,748 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	Well it is nice that Schiff has an opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. What I find remarkable about Schiff and others is that for two years these people held Robert Mueller in the highest regard and now that he has come to a conclusion that they don't like he is no longer relevant. A two-year-long investigation that issued 2,800 subpoenas, interviewed 500 witnesses, and used nearly 300 wiretaps and pen registers is not good enough. All of the things mention in that post have been investigated. If someone like Mueller and a crack team of lawyers and investigators can't find damning proof of Schiff's accusations then what? Are we to take a politician's word for it? Not the most trustworthy or unbiased people around. And of course that's what this is. A political game. The court of public opinion and the court of law are two different things. Schiff's game is aimed directly at the 2020 election. In the American system of law you are innocent until proven guilty. And if you are charged with a crime and found not guilty, you are still not guilty. If a prosecutor cannot find enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, you are still not guilty. Schiff opinion is irrelevant. For a member of a Congressional committee to appear on TV over 227 times a staggering 26 hours to promote himself and his accusations is shameful. My guess is he has higher office aspirations. He is doing the Democratic Party and the eventual 2020 Dem candidate no favors. He is, and I'm trying to be polite, a slimball. I don’t think that’s OK. __________________ “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

03-30-19, 05:20 AM	#6938
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	“If tragedy is about the fact that people are mortal, then comedy is about the fools we make of ourselves on the way to the grave.” ― Ryan Bishop, Comedy and Cultural Critique in American Film https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/fools Last edited by Rockstar; 03-30-19 at 07:43 AM.

03-30-19, 11:58 AM	#6939
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	Schiff is a tool and a fool. All of this is now academic, there will be no indictment of POTUS or impeachment. Trump will run in 2020 and has 66-75% chance of being reelected IMHO. The dems can keep trying to spin collusion, obstruction, campaign finance violation, etc. all they want, but at this point it it so much political hot air. __________________

04-09-19, 08:57 PM	#6941
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,228 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	__________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

04-21-19, 01:58 AM	#6942
Hawk66 Commodore Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 609 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Does one need the Miller report to judge the current administration ? The applied policy is just the opposite for preparing the country for the future. The ones of the administration ,which had that in mind, have left. @August. You do not simply understand. It is not only about Trump and it is not about that he get only reelected one time at most. It is the corruption within a democracy and the lost faith of people in that this system is able to handle the challenges. No western major democracy prepares currently for shifting and adapting the economy . This is the major source that people are unhappy - not only in the US but also for instance in the eastern parts of Germany. The old industries are gone and there is this "Winner takes it all" (digital) economy, which results in having big winners but also a lot of big loosers. Some of the big winners are now realizing that the current system might not last forever...https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0cc40ae0aa1b. I can only point to the book, written by some MIT folks "The second machine age", which outlined the challenges, dangers but also ideas for solutions for the current (economical) struggle a couple of years ago already. It is a blueprint why someone like Trump was able to be elected and the current situation in Europe. __________________ Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

03-29-19, 08:07 AM	#6932
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ummm news flash everything was summed up when after almost two years of investigation Mueller turned his report. Which was I think last week or so ago? All what you just posted is more political hay generated by Schiff when Republicans generated their own political hay by calling for Schiff to resign his position. Furthermore if you look closely and it has nothing to with Mar-Largo.

04-21-19, 05:22 AM	#6943
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,717 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The Mueller report is anything but a clearence of Trump. By current legal rules there will likely be no more consequences he has to fear, but Mueller made it clear apparently, that he does not want his report beign understood as an acquittal, and that the WH did a lot to hinder and obstruct the exmaination. Witnesses were found lying, the president tried to get Mueller fired. A clean royal first grade acquittal looks very different. I would even say that due to this report'S inf atc findings and conclusions, the air smells even more rotten in the WH now. But how the air smeels, and what ios possible by the letter of the laws, are two different things, unfortunately. As I see it, a guilty man escapes here. Not the first one, will not be the last one. Russia succeeded in destablising, tremendously, two major Western powers and eroding and/or paralysing them from within and corrupting their political structures. Brexit and Trumpian polarization will be named as two of the most successful intel destabilistion operations of Russian services ever, they did not manage that success during the cold war. The Crimean operation ("little green men") not even counted. From a purely technical point of view: congratulations. But every fifth american or so even believes it is indeed something good! Its like Aikido. Dont use your own power - take the opponents power and direct it against himself. That needs not so much own power, but clean technical skill, its a difficult technique. Putin, this old KGB fox, excels in that. And so many people in America buy it! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-21-19, 06:17 AM	#6944
Hawk66 Commodore Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 609 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	I agree mostly to what you said, Skybird, but we should not make the mistake to think that European people are smarter than the people of the other side of the Atlantic. See the situation in our own country, see that AFD (which has also strong ties to the Kremlin) is now leading the polls in eastern Germany. See how Putins propaganda has succeeded (I know that it is not the only reason) that the Social democratic party manages preventing to raise the defense budget significantly and the conservatives simply do not want to endanger the coalition since there is no support by the people for this (defense)... ...what is especially worrying to me is that a lot of young people buy parts of the Putin's propaganda, since they have no link to the cold war and its roots and the continuous struggle between freedom and dictatorship. They think it (being free) is free lunch. __________________ Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

04-21-19, 06:22 AM	#6945
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Skybird, I think that its not about truth or doing what is right this is just the American way of politics in its purest form. Nobody is interested in seeing it end and will continue to use the distraction for political purposes right up to the 2020 election. Ol' Noam seems to think it will very well hand president Trump a second term. Last edited by Rockstar; 04-21-19 at 07:27 AM.