US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

I'm sorry to tell you Sky, but that is just not how it works. William Barr, The Attorney General is under some strict guidelines on how he should proceed. He has promised to be as transparent as possible but there are limits. When unelected officials over step their authority there are usually consequences.

When then FBI Director James Comey made his now infamous July 5, 2016 announcement on the Hillary Clinton Email investigation he made that mistake.

I know, and I refered to that Comey case. Still, the system is in a deep, constitutional crisis, these are no orniary, normal times that those rules originally were meant for. A plane or ship usually gets run by routine procedures laid down in procedure guidelines. except there is an emergency - than these rules must be "overruled" to save lives and to keep chances for ship'S or plane'S survival. The US's plticla system is in no different situation than right this: it headdives for a crash on the bottom of the sea. The erosion is utmost evident, the emergency cannot be denied.

Let's hope that AG Barr follows the the proper legal protocols in regards to Mueller's report.

Lets hope he sees the urgent and absolutely un-normal status of things and the need to adress them with his decision instead of putting loyalty to Trump before that, that is my concern, and thats why I asked about him. I read in German media that he has absolutely the right to publish the report in parts, or in full, either to Congress or the wide public, he also has the right to deny that, especialyl in case of the report leading to no further consequences and accusations. And I think this oublishing is what has to happen indeed. If the report is kept secret, even if it says that Trump did nothing wrong it still would widen the trenches and deepen the crisis then, and would be a notorious source of more rumours and hostile hear-say and suspicions. The suspicions must be brought to an end, if they are unfounded, and you cannot do that with keeping the report secret. To prevent this secrecy must be priority: no matter whether it damages Trump or supports Trump.

The report must be published. Too much depends on it. These are no ordinary normal times anymore. The situation is critical, and detoriating, and thus: urgent.


Call it an issue of national security. That are the magic words in America, aren'T they?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Still, the system is in a deep, constitutional crisis, these are no ordinary, normal times that those rules originally were meant for.

Well many people would agree and I am one of them. There are many legal experts who believe that there was no legal basis for the appointment of a special counsel because there was no evidence that the president had committed a crime. Trying to connect the Russian interference in the 2016 election to Trump and his campaign requires evidence. Mueller never charged any Trump associate with any kind of espionage conspiracy. Obviously Mueller didn't find any legally prosecutable evidence. In the American legal system you don't name someone and then go looking for a crime. Investigations targeting Americans for violating the law have to be premised on crime. Most if not all of the convictions that Mueller has brought could have and should have been investigated and charged by the FBI, the DOJ or the FEC. The fact that Mueller is not bringing indictments for collusion is evidence of this. People's feelings about Trump should not take precedence over the rule of law.

The real debacle in all of this is the utter debasement of the Left wing anti-Trump news media both in America and elsewhere. In their certainty of Trump's guilt they ran with story after hysterical story only to be proven wrong. On one occasion Mueller himself corrected them publicly. Their reaction to the 'no more indictments' statement is equally hysterical. I'm guessing that they have learned nothing and are now looking for more 'orange man bad' windmills to joust with.

[Skybird]

Well, if the grenade indeed holds no blackpowder and no fuze, prove it: present it to the public and let them see with their own eyes that there is no powder and no fuse.



Myth rebuked then, as far as the report's range reached.



Keep the grenade in the hidden and let not anyone see it, and you will help to keep the suspicions alive, since your behaviour necessarily must appear dubious, and suspicious then.



In this heated atmosphere, its a nobrainer, really.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The report must be published. Too much depends on it. These are no ordinary normal times anymore. The situation is critical, and detoriating, and thus: urgent.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, if the grenade indeed holds no blackpowder and no fuze, prove it: present it to the public and let them see with their own eyes that there is no powder and no fuse.

Well so far other than hysterical reactions from Democrats and the Left MSM there is no indication that it will not be released. Trump is on record as saying he wants it published and Barr has promised to be as transparent as he can legally be. As usual people get out in front of themselves for fun and profit. Why not wait and see what happens and then react? After all this was two years in the making. I predict more disappointment for the 'orange man bad' crowd.

[August]

I agree there should be full disclosure. Like this guy says:

The news that Special Counsel Robert Mueller has closed his investigation without recommending criminal charges against President Trump is a relief. It is not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that the news has Trump antagonists clamoring for full disclosure of the special counsel’s final report. Mind you, when skeptics of the Trump-Russia investigation asked what the criminal predicate for it was, and on what basis the Obama administration had decided to monitor the opposition party’s presidential campaign, we were admonished about the wages of disclosure — the compromise of precious defense secrets, of deep-cover intelligence sources and methods. Why, to ask for such information was to be an insurrectionist seeking to destroy the FBI, the Justice Department, and the rule of law itself. Now, though, it’s only the uncharged president of the United States at issue, so disclose away!
Well, if we’re going to have disclosure, fine. But let’s have full disclosure: Mueller’s report in addition to the FISA applications; the memoranda pertinent to the opening and continuation of the investigation; the testimony in secret hearings; the scope memorandum Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein issued on August 2, 2017, after failing to cite a crime when he appointed Mueller — let’s have all of it.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...nts-testimony/

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47683309

In the course of their investigation, Mr Mueller and his team have already charged 34 people - including six former Trump aides and a dozen Russians - as well as three companies.

None of those charges directly related to the allegations of collusion between the campaign and Moscow - allegations that President Trump has always denied.

Mr Mueller reportedly also examined another question: whether Mr Trump committed obstruction of justice in an effort to curtail an FBI investigation into connections between his campaign and Russians.

It is not yet known how much of the report - if any - will be made available to the public.

It is not clear how much information is being shared with Congress.

Mr Barr, who was appointed by Mr Trump, told congressional leaders on Friday that he was "committed to as much transparency as possible."

Despite all the attention is has received since it was submitted on Friday, the special counsel's investigation is not the only probe that could threaten Mr Trump's presidency. About a dozen other investigations are being run independently of Mr Mueller's office.

They include a federal investigation in New York that is looking into possible election-law violations by the Trump campaign and his businesses and possible misconduct by the Trump inaugural committee.

The fat lady has not yet sung.

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187

The summary of the special counsel's report released on Sunday "did not draw a conclusion" as to whether there was any obstruction of justice, either.

But the special counsel adds that its findings do not exonerate Mr Trump.

Formal ways can leadonly as far as formality in ways allows.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by u crank

Well so far other than hysterical reactions from Democrats and the Left MSM there is no indication that it will not be released. Trump is on record as saying he wants it published and Barr has promised to be as transparent as he can legally be. As usual people get out in front of themselves for fun and profit. Why not wait and see what happens and then react? After all this was two years in the making. I predict more disappointment for the 'orange man bad' crowd.

And what was the result from the never ending Benhgazi investigations, and how well did they work out,lol No stinking waste of money there, was there! Poor Republicans couldn't come up with jack, poor babies!

[u crank]

Originally Posted by eddie

And what was the result from the never ending Benhgazi investigations, and how well did they work out,lol No stinking waste of money there, was there! Poor Republicans couldn't come up with jack, poor babies!

I don't see the connection between the Benghazi hearings and the fact that Dems want to see Mueller's report released in full. I'm I missing something?

[Buddahaid]

Not really, it's just a response to Dems whining comments and pointing out Rep whining over Benhgazi. Politicians whine like children in a kindergarten sandbox.

[u crank]

The fallout from the 'Russiagate' affair is just starting and it is not likely to end soon. One of the failures in this affair has to be the way the MSM media reported it. MSNBC and CNN in particular drove this story like a rented mule. Straight up news reporting has been replaced by a preconceived opinion that is then pushed with every manner of false stories and exaggerated opinions made by people who should have known better. What they wished for didn't come true.

This article by Matt Taibbi lays out some pretty damning evidence about the media's failure in reporting the 'Russia Collusion' story. It is aptly titled "It's official: Russiagate is this generation's WMD"

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russia...imes-a-million

Stories have been coming out for some time now hinting Mueller’s final report might leave audiences “disappointed,” as if a President not being a foreign spy could somehow be bad news.

Openly using such language has, all along, been an indictment. Imagine how tone-deaf you’d have to be to not realize it makes you look bad, when news does not match audience expectations you raised. To be unaware of this is mind-boggling, the journalistic equivalent of walking outside without pants.

One effect of this hysterical and less than truthful reporting is going to be certain. The MSM will become the victims of their own undoing. It was bad before but the Left/progressive media are now the unwitting helpers of the people they so openly disdain.

Nothing Trump is accused of from now on by the press will be believed by huge chunks of the population, a group that (perhaps thanks to this story) is now larger than his original base.

Years ago, in the midst of the WMD affair, Times public editor Daniel Okrent noted the paper’s standard had moved from “Don’t get it first, get it right” to “Get it first and get it right.” From there, Okrent wrote, “the next devolution was an obvious one.”

We’re at that next devolution: first and wrong. The Russiagate era has so degraded journalism that even once “reputable” outlets are now only about as right as politicians, which is to say barely ever, and then only by accident.

[Catfish]

So Russia cranked the election in Trump's favour without poor Trump knowing it. Cambridge analytics and Steve Bannon are spotless heralds of democracy and Breitbart and Fox have now earned so much more credit.
Good to know.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So Russia cranked the election in Trump's favour without poor Trump knowing it. Cambridge analytics and Steve Bannon are spotless heralds of democracy and Breitbart and Fox have now earned so much more credit.
Good to know.

Well a bunch of questions come to mind here.

What does Cambridge Analytica and Steve Bannon have to do with the media's failure to get at the truth about the 'Russian Collusion' story?

Mueller's report was conducted by a crack team of investigators and lawyers that interviewed about 500 witnesses, obtained more than 2,800 subpoenas and warrants, executed 500 search warrants, obtained 230 orders for communications records, and made 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence. If there is anything to the Cambridge Analytica story did Mueller miss it? Why no indictments? Is he that incompetent?

So Russia cranked the election in Trump's favor without poor Trump knowing it.

Here is something you should keep in mind. While Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica were supposedly doing this doing this Barrak Obama was the President. James Comey and Andrew McCabe were FBI director and assistant directors. James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence. John Brennan was Director of the CIA. Susan Rice was National Security Advisor. If what you say is true these people are guilty of a massive intelligence failure and should be called to explain their failure or ...it's just like the 'Russia Collusion story. A minor story/theory blown way out of proportion by a compliant media.

[ikalugin]

Makes me wonder, how many positive articles did NYT or other MSM outlets post about Russia?

Back in 2018 I recall Pozner claiming that NYT did not publish any over several years, makes one wonder if their coverage was skewed.

[Rockstar]