UK Politics Thread

[MGR1]

Re: The seven ex-Labour MPs.


Does that mean there will be seven by-elections? There should be.


Mike.

[Jimbuna]

I should imagine that decision will be taken by their constituencies cometh the next general election but atm they remain standing as independents.

I reckon what is more important is which way they will vote regarding important issues such as Brexit because some of them may well decide to vote against any Labour stance.

[MGR1]

That's what I thought. Say what you will about Douglas Carswell, at least he had the cojones to ask his electorate to back or reject his change in party allegience.


I can't see any of the seven making that choice.


Here's two Scottish takes on the split:


There is no clear space for a new centrist party in Scotland

Beyond the matter of national independence, Scottish politics is far less ideologically polarised. In Scotland, of course, "independent" has a very different meaning. And this is why the former Labour MPs of The Independent Group, if they take the step of forming a new party to fight the next election across the UK, will struggle north of the border.

A very gentle revolution

What does today's parting signify? Is it the beginning of a new alignment in UK politics; the ambition of many since the establishment of the SDP in 1981 by the Gang of Four?
Perhaps. If so, it is initially a very gentle revolution. The seven - do they yet have a nickname? - are not, at this stage, forming a new party, which would involve recruiting grassroots members, setting up a formal structure, contesting by-elections and the rest.

This is one of the consequnces of having a devolved Scottish Parliament that governs many of the day-to-day activities up here - the upheaval at Westminster and political churn within England seems a bit removed.


Another is that as England (and Northern Ireland currently) is effectively a direct possesion of Westminster it doesn't have a functioning government. Scotland and Wales both do, albeit only within their respective devolved areas of responsibility.


Mike.

[Jimbuna]

I'm certainly no fan of Laura Kuenssberg but she is asking the million dollar question.

MPs still in the party will have a variety of reactions, from fury to sadness.

But few of them now could pretend there isn't a problem, even prompting an astonishing admission from the party's deputy leader, Tom Watson, who - remember - is also elected by the members who so overwhelmingly supported Jeremy Corbyn.

"I love this party. But sometimes I no longer recognise it," he said.

A warning that despite the government's many and multiple problems, it is Labour that's losing members and losing MPs.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47282328

[MGR1]

Going further into the parallel world of Scottish politics:


Two articles from Chris Deerin of the NewStatesman:

The travails of Scottish Labour: LINK.

A tiny chink of light where the SNP's tendency to centralise is concerned: LINK.


Details of the Scottish Budget which was passed with the support of the Scottish Greens: LINK.

Fraser of Allander Institute analysis of said budget: LINK and LINK.

In the case of the projected "Workplace Parking Tax" the Scottish Conservatives have shot themselves in the foot; Brian Taylor's summary: LINK.

It was vintage Swinney. Towering oratory. Searing passion. Rhetorical devices. All on display. All highly effective. It was only when the deputy first minister subsided once more, emotionally drained, that a mischievous thought occurred.
He hadn't actually supported the policy which had caused the controversy in the first place.
I speak of the workplace parking levy, conceded to the Greens as part of the price for a wider deal on the budget.
In essence, Mr Swinney said that ministers had been obliged to tolerate the discretionary parking charge in order to secure the goodies contained elsewhere in the budget.
But he contrived to turn this mundane admission into a tour de force. He added into the mix a powerful defence of local decision-making, accusing the Tories of "hypocrisy" in the by-going.
Again, this was done with panache and vigour. Mr Swinney listed four Tories who had signed a joint letter, supporting localism. One by one, he excoriated the villainy of their seeming about-turn - before uttering the last name in a quivering baritone.
Yes, chums, it was Jackson Carlaw.

Jackson Carlaw MSP is currently deputising for Ruth Davidson who's on maternity leave.


Mike.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Well I think we can jointly agree on this portion of your reply

Considering that there is just one regiment with one HQ company, two main and one reserve company of light infantry, three inflatable small motor boats and two small solid hull patrol craft, no aircraft whatever, and considering the distance advantage for Spain comparing to the UK's distance in logistics and air cover, and the small size of Gibraltar that makes it an option to simply shelling the hell out of it with artillery until nothing moves anymore, you must agree on the rest what I said as well, if you are a sane man. Militarily defending Gibraltar against a serious attempt by Spain to take it by force, is an excercise in futility. There is no doubt on the outcome. None. Not even a Hollywood screenplay writer would be able to raise doubts on that.

[STEED]

I'm not bothered the seven former labour MP's are now independant as this is more of a thorn in jezzer and his mob's side. If they all had join a another party(s) then yes their should be byelectiontions.

[STEED]

Derek Hatton rejoins Labour after 34 years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...yside-47286766

That will make that Mad Dog Jezzer happy.

Labour resignations: John McDonnell promises 'listening exercise'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47292177



Will you act? Of course you will not just like in the last two years.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Considering that there is just one regiment with one HQ company, two main and one reserve company of light infantry, three inflatable small motor boats and two small solid hull patrol craft, no aircraft whatever, and considering the distance advantage for Spain comparing to the UK's distance in logistics and air cover, and the small size of Gibraltar that makes it an option to simply shelling the hell out of it with artillery until nothing moves anymore, you must agree on the rest what I said as well, if you are a sane man. Militarily defending Gibraltar against a serious attempt by Spain to take it by force, is an excercise in futility. There is no doubt on the outcome. None. Not even a Hollywood screenplay writer would be able to raise doubts on that.

If history has taught you anything my friend then surely one of those things would be never to underestimate the UK in times of a national emergency.

The Argentinians were the last ones to make that mistake and whilst I readily admit the UK in terms of military capability have since diminished, there is still sufficient might that could be put together on land sea and air should a determined concentration of forces be needed for any specific task.

Having said all that, I can't see Spain invading anywhere considering the impications to NATO and the financial consequences to their tourism income, to name but two.

As to my sanity....that is subject to individual perception

[Jimbuna]

Derek Hatton rejoins Labour after 34 years

Met him on many occasions over the years and never realised he was older than me

[Jimbuna]

[STEED]

Well Done.

Joan Ryan becomes eighth MP to quit Labour to join Independent Group

https://news.sky.com/story/joan-ryan...group-11642422

[STEED]

BIG BREAKING NEWS...


THREE CONSERVATIVE MP's JOIN THE INDEPENDENT GROUP.

Three MPs - Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Anna Soubry - leave the Tory party to join Labour breakaway group

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47306022

[Jimbuna]

Could be the beginning of a three main party system. They already number one more than the Liberals.

[STEED]

Anna Soubry is no real surprise the only surprise is she always seemed more Liberal and why she never was a LibDem.


To be honest its going to change nothing unless there are a 20 to 30 odd leave the Con/Lab and I can not see that at the moment. For the Conservative side they can not afford to loose one and Lab don't care how many they loose as their ranks will be filled with Marxists.