Torpedo damage - Page 2

Sniper297 · 01-20-19, 11:56 PM

Excerpt from "SINK 'EM ALL" by Charles Lockwood :

..."sighted a cruiser and destroyer, but the cruiser disappeared behind an island. BLUEGILL then then began an approach on the destroyer, but suddenly the cruiser reappeared, making high speed. It was a snap shot, for Barr only had time to make a quick set up, swing to the firing course, and fire six torpedoes."

Went on to say three hits out of six fish, and sunk the cruiser. If "snap shot" is okay with Admiral Lockwood (COMSUBPAC) who are we to argue?

As for the original question, my guess is the programmers used the early war specs for the torpedoes - 400 pounds of TNT at the beginning. After most of the Ralph Christie screwups were fixed (that bozo should have been court martialed) the warheads in the Mark 14 were 643 pounds of torpex, which had 150% of the bang of TNT. So a 643 pound torpex warhead equals about 965 pounds of TNT in blastology, more than twice the bang of the original they started the war with. So finding a mod with double the damage is a good start, I made one that's adjustable according to taste;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4380

There are five optional mods, number 3 is 125 + 125 - increases the power and damage radius, which increases the hit point loss and spreads the damaged area for bigger holes. That one feels about right to me, although for the crazies there are two more powerful mods that - well, that they get a bang out of.

jimmbbo · 01-21-19, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

As for the original question, my guess is the programmers used the early war specs for the torpedoes - 400 pounds of TNT at the beginning. After most of the Ralph Christie screwups were fixed (that bozo should have been court martialed) the warheads in the Mark 14 were 643 pounds of torpex, which had 150% of the bang of TNT. So a 643 pound torpex warhead equals about 965 pounds of TNT in blastology, more than twice the bang of the original they started the war with. So finding a mod with double the damage is a good start, I made one that's adjustable according to taste;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4380

There are five optional mods, number 3 is 125 + 125 - increases the power and damage radius, which increases the hit point loss and spreads the damaged area for bigger holes. That one feels about right to me, although for the crazies there are two more powerful mods that - well, that they get a bang out of.

KA BOOM!!! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!

Sniper297 · 01-21-19, 12:37 AM

Worst trouble with the Silent Hunter series, they never took a hint from the Microprose Silent Service series (1985 and 1990) - in that series you got full credit for sinking a ship, half credit for damaging one that didn't sink. With Silent Hunter if it won't go down all the way you get nothing at all, you might as well have stayed home. You might try the big one (135% blast, 175% hole size), but after laughing about blowing the Yamato into orbit with a single shot a few times most people go back to number 3 since it has the most realistic feel to it.

propbeanie · 01-21-19, 07:36 AM

I think Ubisoft consulted with JANAC when they did the "score" part of the game...

Sniper297 · 01-21-19, 10:14 PM

Yeah, fog of war stuff. Especially with Christie's magnetic exploder (honestly the idiot had two years before we got into the war to study why the Germans and the Brits both realized the whole thing was a flawed theory, didn't he know how to read? Then he compounded the problem by insisting the subs under his command should ignore Lockwood's order to disable the magnetic part and only use the contact trigger for another year!) there were "hits" reported that were actually prematures for the first half of the war. IJN was a victim of that at Midway, they thought they had sunk the YORKTOWN at Coral Sea, then set it on fire at Midway, damage control put the fires out and they "sunk" it again, then an IJN sub got four hits which were actually two because the destroyer USS HAMMANN alongside caught the others. So between Coral Sea and Midway the official IJN score was 2 at Coral Sea (LEXINGTON was actually sunk, they scored YORKTOWN as sunk) and three at Midway (actually YORKTOWN three times) for a total of five.

Anyway the game is what it is, if there's no benefit to damaging them you have to actually sink them.

NZSharkbait · 01-22-19, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Yeah, fog of war stuff. Especially with Christie's magnetic exploder (honestly the idiot had two years before we got into the war to study why the Germans and the Brits both realized the whole thing was a flawed theory, didn't he know how to read? Then he compounded the problem by insisting the subs under his command should ignore Lockwood's order to disable the magnetic part and only use the contact trigger for another year!) there were "hits" reported that were actually prematures for the first half of the war. IJN was a victim of that at Midway, they thought they had sunk the YORKTOWN at Coral Sea, then set it on fire at Midway, damage control put the fires out and they "sunk" it again, then an IJN sub got four hits which were actually two because the destroyer USS HAMMANN alongside caught the others. So between Coral Sea and Midway the official IJN score was 2 at Coral Sea (LEXINGTON was actually sunk, they scored YORKTOWN as sunk) and three at Midway (actually YORKTOWN three times) for a total of five.

Anyway the game is what it is, if there's no benefit to damaging them you have to actually sink them.

The whole sad, sorry saga can be found on wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

and is summarized here:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/caa-product...pdf?1366918906

I'm just glad that SH4 doesn't have a setting that allows the odd rogue torpedo to make a circular run back to its mother ship...

fireftr18 · 01-22-19, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZSharkbait

I'm just glad that SH4 doesn't have a setting that allows the odd rogue torpedo to make a circular run back to its mother ship...

Wanna bet? Hold my bourbon, I'll show you. Or is that a TMO thing?

propbeanie · 01-22-19, 09:54 PM

Did someone call my name?...

I was testing something else here, when this occurred. While the sub doesn't sink immediately, and I thought I was home free after we surfaced and started using the deck gun, but no. Within thirty minutes, we were in the dinghy (named propbeanie), with all of the code books and charts destroyed. The Chief even managed to save his comic book collection...

This was "filmed" before the introduction of CapnScurvy's AI Torpedoes, else I would have had another one or two coming at me... You probably can't see it in the video, but there is a periscope sticking out of the water in front of my sub, from an AI Sen Toku, sitting staionary...

NZSharkbait · 01-23-19, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireftr18

Wanna bet? Hold my bourbon, I'll show you. Or is that a TMO thing?

But...but, I kept telling my crew and the Admiral back at Pearl that it was a Jap torpedo, fired from a Q-ship disguised as a modern medium composite freighter, that blew the boat sky high.

Dang, this is gonna be embarrassing.

KaleunMarco · 01-24-19, 06:55 PM

while we are discussing torpedos and torpedo damage, i have a question for which i have been trying to find an answer.

what file contains the true draft of a surface ship? by true draft i mean that if i am using auto-targeting and i line up a ship, lock settings in the periscope into the TDC and the torpedo from where does that depth setting come AND then where is the true draft setting of that ship stored? i am suspecting a disconnect between those two draft numbers for at least one ship and possible another but i do not want to say anything additional until i check it out.
i am only aware of the \data\sea\shipnamefolder\shipname.cfg file.

s7rikeback · 01-24-19, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

while we are discussing torpedos and torpedo damage, i have a question for which i have been trying to find an answer.

what file contains the true draft of a surface ship? by true draft i mean that if i am using auto-targeting and i line up a ship, lock settings in the periscope into the TDC and the torpedo from where does that depth setting come AND then where is the true draft setting of that ship stored? i am suspecting a disconnect between those two draft numbers for at least one ship and possible another but i do not want to say anything additional until i check it out.
i am only aware of the \data\sea\shipnamefolder\shipname.cfg file.

\data\sea\shipnamefolder\shipname.sim file

KaleunMarco · 01-24-19, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

\data\sea\shipnamefolder\shipname.sim file

thank you very much.
yes, yes, yes.
the two ships in question are the KMSSAda and the KMSSAden.
ship .cfg .sim

Ada 7.9m 12m

Aden 6.6m 12m

the reason i took notice is that i was consistently firing torpedos that went too deep for these two...but not other ships. when one uses auto-targeting one is at the mercy of stored data for certain settings such as ship draft.
so i can just about conclude that the TDC is taking data from the .sim file but the actual ship draft is taken from the .cfg.
this will be easy to finalize by changing the .sim to match the .cfg (or vice versa) and go out and see if the default auto-target results in a hit.
thanks again, old chap.

jimmbbo · 01-25-19, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

thank you very much.
the reason i took notice is that i was consistently firing torpedos that went too deep for these two...but not other ships. when one uses auto-targeting one is at the mercy of stored data for certain settings such as ship draft.
so i can just about conclude that the TDC is taking data from the .sim file but the actual ship draft is taken from the .cfg.

When autotargeting, I found success setting the individual torps to run at 10 ft, which ensures hits on the merchants...

mikesn9 · 01-25-19, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmbbo

When autotargeting, I found success setting the individual torps to run at 10 ft, which ensures hits on the merchants...

I have found success by setting the torpedo depth to be 2 feet less than the keel depth stated in the ID book ("n")

Sniper297 · 02-06-19, 01:57 AM

"if i am using auto-targeting and i line up a ship, lock settings in the periscope into the TDC and the torpedo from where does that depth setting"

"when one uses auto-targeting one is at the mercy of stored data for certain settings such as ship draft."

No.

On the TDC panel (right side of TDC slide out on the periscope or TBT screens) at the bottom is a slider for POSITION KEEPER and TORPEDO SETTINGS. Clicking that toggles from one to the other, and you set the depth and speed of each torpedo on that screen, then toggle back to the other for targeting. If you haven't been using that with the Mark 14, you've always been firing then at slow speed.

The other major problem is the way gyro angles are programmed - auto targeting sets the gyro angle for what compass direction the torpedo will turn to UNTIL THE FIRE BUTTON IS PRESSED. The moment you hit fire, the gyro spindle disengages and the compass course for the torpedo is set. Why is that a problem? Automatic OPEN OUTER DOORS takes several seconds, so by the time the torpedo actually leaves the tube your firing solution is about five seconds old, and it will miss behind the target nearly every time.

It's VITAL to hit the Q key for every torpedo you plan to fire before you get to the "final bearing and shoot" time, that way the torpedo will come out of the tube immediately, instead of waiting until the outer doors cycle and the gyro setting goes sour. If you're missing a lot, the common denominator is nearly always failing to hit the Q then W to cycle through the tubes and make sure the outer doors are open before firing. That automatic door opening is the most poorly programmed part of the whole game, so don't rely on it.

01-21-19, 07:36 AM	#19
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,112 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	I think Ubisoft consulted with JANAC when they did the "score" part of the game... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

01-22-19, 09:54 PM	#23
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,112 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	Did someone call my name?... I was testing something else here, when this occurred. While the sub doesn't sink immediately, and I thought I was home free after we surfaced and started using the deck gun, but no. Within thirty minutes, we were in the dinghy (named propbeanie), with all of the code books and charts destroyed. The Chief even managed to save his comic book collection... This was "filmed" before the introduction of CapnScurvy's AI Torpedoes, else I would have had another one or two coming at me... You probably can't see it in the video, but there is a periscope sticking out of the water in front of my sub, from an AI Sen Toku, sitting staionary... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

01-24-19, 06:55 PM	#25
KaleunMarco Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Gone to Texas. No More Kleptocratic Government for me! Posts: 4,269 Downloads: 462 Uploads: 29	true draft while we are discussing torpedos and torpedo damage, i have a question for which i have been trying to find an answer. what file contains the true draft of a surface ship? by true draft i mean that if i am using auto-targeting and i line up a ship, lock settings in the periscope into the TDC and the torpedo from where does that depth setting come AND then where is the true draft setting of that ship stored? i am suspecting a disconnect between those two draft numbers for at least one ship and possible another but i do not want to say anything additional until i check it out. i am only aware of the \data\sea\shipnamefolder\shipname.cfg file. __________________ there are only two things in the world: submarines and targets. Fortis et stabilis et fidelis, semper ------------------------------------------------------------ Silent Hunter 4 1.5 Gold Edition on CDROM LAA enabled Dell XPS with 32 GB Ram running Win10

01-20-19, 11:56 PM	#16
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Excerpt from "SINK 'EM ALL" by Charles Lockwood : ..."sighted a cruiser and destroyer, but the cruiser disappeared behind an island. BLUEGILL then then began an approach on the destroyer, but suddenly the cruiser reappeared, making high speed. It was a snap shot, for Barr only had time to make a quick set up, swing to the firing course, and fire six torpedoes." Went on to say three hits out of six fish, and sunk the cruiser. If "snap shot" is okay with Admiral Lockwood (COMSUBPAC) who are we to argue? As for the original question, my guess is the programmers used the early war specs for the torpedoes - 400 pounds of TNT at the beginning. After most of the Ralph Christie screwups were fixed (that bozo should have been court martialed) the warheads in the Mark 14 were 643 pounds of torpex, which had 150% of the bang of TNT. So a 643 pound torpex warhead equals about 965 pounds of TNT in blastology, more than twice the bang of the original they started the war with. So finding a mod with double the damage is a good start, I made one that's adjustable according to taste; http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4380 There are five optional mods, number 3 is 125 + 125 - increases the power and damage radius, which increases the hit point loss and spreads the damaged area for bigger holes. That one feels about right to me, although for the crazies there are two more powerful mods that - well, that they get a bang out of.

01-21-19, 12:37 AM	#18
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Worst trouble with the Silent Hunter series, they never took a hint from the Microprose Silent Service series (1985 and 1990) - in that series you got full credit for sinking a ship, half credit for damaging one that didn't sink. With Silent Hunter if it won't go down all the way you get nothing at all, you might as well have stayed home. You might try the big one (135% blast, 175% hole size), but after laughing about blowing the Yamato into orbit with a single shot a few times most people go back to number 3 since it has the most realistic feel to it.

01-21-19, 10:14 PM	#20
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Yeah, fog of war stuff. Especially with Christie's magnetic exploder (honestly the idiot had two years before we got into the war to study why the Germans and the Brits both realized the whole thing was a flawed theory, didn't he know how to read? Then he compounded the problem by insisting the subs under his command should ignore Lockwood's order to disable the magnetic part and only use the contact trigger for another year!) there were "hits" reported that were actually prematures for the first half of the war. IJN was a victim of that at Midway, they thought they had sunk the YORKTOWN at Coral Sea, then set it on fire at Midway, damage control put the fires out and they "sunk" it again, then an IJN sub got four hits which were actually two because the destroyer USS HAMMANN alongside caught the others. So between Coral Sea and Midway the official IJN score was 2 at Coral Sea (LEXINGTON was actually sunk, they scored YORKTOWN as sunk) and three at Midway (actually YORKTOWN three times) for a total of five. Anyway the game is what it is, if there's no benefit to damaging them you have to actually sink them.

02-06-19, 01:57 AM	#30
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	"if i am using auto-targeting and i line up a ship, lock settings in the periscope into the TDC and the torpedo from where does that depth setting" "when one uses auto-targeting one is at the mercy of stored data for certain settings such as ship draft." No. On the TDC panel (right side of TDC slide out on the periscope or TBT screens) at the bottom is a slider for POSITION KEEPER and TORPEDO SETTINGS. Clicking that toggles from one to the other, and you set the depth and speed of each torpedo on that screen, then toggle back to the other for targeting. If you haven't been using that with the Mark 14, you've always been firing then at slow speed. The other major problem is the way gyro angles are programmed - auto targeting sets the gyro angle for what compass direction the torpedo will turn to UNTIL THE FIRE BUTTON IS PRESSED. The moment you hit fire, the gyro spindle disengages and the compass course for the torpedo is set. Why is that a problem? Automatic OPEN OUTER DOORS takes several seconds, so by the time the torpedo actually leaves the tube your firing solution is about five seconds old, and it will miss behind the target nearly every time. It's VITAL to hit the Q key for every torpedo you plan to fire before you get to the "final bearing and shoot" time, that way the torpedo will come out of the tube immediately, instead of waiting until the outer doors cycle and the gyro setting goes sour. If you're missing a lot, the common denominator is nearly always failing to hit the Q then W to cycle through the tubes and make sure the outer doors are open before firing. That automatic door opening is the most poorly programmed part of the whole game, so don't rely on it.