Base Time 2018

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I'm following closely, and trying to think of something that would load in the Campaign, that does not load otherwise, that could influence what you're seeing... there are certain files called in Campaign.cfg that load in the campaign only, others that load in some or all of the game, but again, nothing that would directly affect 'time'... - This might be some deep divin' 'vestigatin'...

A couple of thoughts: 1. FotRSU is based on FOTRS, and v1.2 & 1.3 are available on Subsim.com 2. FOTRS is based on TMO v1.7... I've got v1.6x somthing or other for SH4 v1.4, so I'll try your Test Mission on those...

It’s not really affecting time at all. It’s affecting the background that’s loaded. The base time of the backup and the load are the same. The water is probably the same. The celestial sphere that loads appears to be the default from starting the career from “in base” rather than the one in the save game. The waypoints are also missing. It’s like it loads parts of the save game along with whatever happens when you start the career from “in base.”. All the data in the save game is correct as can be seen by quitting and restarting. Some of it is either not being read properly or is being overwritten when loading a save game over an already loaded save game. It’s almost like a double exposure. What is key here is that upon opening the second save game, the program thinks you are just starting your career from in base and provides no waypoints and the default celestial sphere from 1300 hours the day you start your first patrol. It seems like it's combining two data sets, one from the save came and one from the career start.

[propbeanie]

That was why I used 'time', in the apostrophes, was that it is the appearance of a time passage, or time and space not synchronizing properly. It could be an error of commission, or more likely, and error of omission, maybe an invalid portion of data that overwrites something that it shouldn't... dunno. I won't have time to set things up to try out my old TMO until this evening, mostly because I haven't found the mod files yet... surprise surprise... I do have FOTRS v1.2 on a computer though, and hope to get to testing it this afternoon. I'll let you know what I find with it...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

That was why I used 'time', in the apostrophes, was that it is the appearance of a time passage, or time and space not synchronizing properly. It could be an error of commission, or more likely, and error of omission, maybe an invalid portion of data that overwrites something that it shouldn't... dunno. I won't have time to set things up to try out my old TMO until this evening, mostly because I haven't found the mod files yet... surprise surprise... I do have FOTRS v1.2 on a computer though, and hope to get to testing it this afternoon. I'll let you know what I find with it...

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

Base Time is as drifty as a Seaman Recruit on their first day at Great Lakes Naval Training Center!

I do not even pay attention to time as a scale in this game. Most of it is a hard coded issue that will never be resolved. Is it visibly day or night is all I care about. The only reason I find time to be any value at all is if one is modding and you need to set it inside the mod for entrance and exits.

I was taught early on in this game to never save over a save . It has a name and it is called ... pain.

Do not do that.

[Front Runner]

Here is the issue.....
(1) In FOTRSU.v* Career Mode, BALAO class boat, (TAMBOR sometimes does not exhibit this issue), when you save game at midnight, with all of your navigational waypoints set, and it's dark.....

(2)......and then quit the game and load that save game again on game restart, and it is midnight, with all of your navigational waypoints set, and it's dark, in EXACTLY the same game state as it was in when you first saved it.....

(3).....and then you reload that very same save game that you just loaded, without quitting the game first, and it's midnight, BUT now, all of your waypoints are missing, and, instead it's, broad daylight, then this issue has serious AI Friendly and Enemy timing issues if you continue to play the erroneous, FUBAR load, not to mention that your Base time is now even more out of whack than "normal."

Is it daylight for you and dark of night for them? Or vice-versa?

(4)......and then you quit the game and reload that very same save game and everything is EXACTLY as it was when you saved it the first time. Midnight, waypoints, dark.

In other words, you only get one accurate save game load per game session. Any subsequent loads are FUBAR. IFAIK, it does not appear to be a WRITE issue (or an over-write issue.) It is a READ issue which occurs on any subsequent save game load made after the FIRST save game load.

You must quit the game and restart and load that save game to get the game into the same state as it was when you first saved it. The save game file is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. It reloads to the same game state, but ONLY the first time on game startup.

This is NOT the old "hey, why is it light out when my (base time) (onboard) clock says it's night time."

This issue affects ONLY FOTRSU.v* Career Mode (AFAIK). It does not affect WOTP Vanilla, nor does it affect TMO, TMO/RSRD, RFB, Ralles Mod Pack, nor many other variations of Vanilla, and Mod files I have tested. I don't believe it to be hard coded. If it were, all of the aforementioned games and mods would have the same issue. They don't!

[propbeanie]

I'm wondering about scene.dat, which has sun & moon phases (and the terns), but I haven't gone through the whole thing yet... surely it's not "backwards" with night is day and day is night?... - a quick comparison on one computer is that there is not difference between it and several other modded games, but I have not been on my computer with a "pristine" stock... If it does match "stock", why have it in the mod?...

[mikesn9]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

I do not even pay attention to time as a scale in this game. Most of it is a hard coded issue that will never be resolved. Is it visibly day or night is all I care about. The only reason I find time to be any value at all is if one is modding and you need to set it inside the mod for entrance and exits.

I was taught early on in this game to never save over a save . It has a name and it is called ... pain.

Do not do that.

Thanks Merc, I've been contemplating saying the same thing.. what matters in the game: Is it dark or light out? and: What is the weather?

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by mikesn9

Thanks Merc, I've been contemplating saying the same thing.. what matters in the game: Is it dark or light out? and: What is the weather?

Please try to understand this particular issue. AFAIK, it affects only FOTRSU.v* and only in Career Mode BALAO, sometimes TAMBOR (boat testing continues.) See my simplified description of this issue here......

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=35

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I'm wondering about scene.dat, which has sun & moon phases (and the terns), but I haven't gone through the whole thing yet... surely it's not "backwards" with night is day and day is night?... - a quick comparison on one computer is that there is not difference between it and several other modded games, but I have not been on my computer with a "pristine" stock... If it does match "stock", why have it in the mod?...

Propbeanie - I looked at scene.dat from the PRISTINE folder and from the FOTRSU.v80 RC2 folder. There are significant differences. I don't think the scene.dat is the issue though. If it were, I'd be unable to load ANY accurate save games.

For those of you interested and following this issue, The first save game load is OK. The second, third, fourth, etc. save game load, without first quitting the game and restarting is FUBAR. The data contained in the save game(s) are correct. The reading of the data is correct only on the first loading of that save game. The reading of the data is FUBAR if you re-load that "EXACTLY the same" save game. There is something very weird happening and we are trying to track it down.

You might not care whether or not the AI elements of this game are timed correctly to the day/night cycle, but I sure do! Especially with all of the detailed work that the FOTRSU team is doing! I'm not going to speak for Propbeanie, but I believe he cares as well.

If you are playing any versions or combinations of mods other than FOTRSU, then this issue is not affecting you (AFAIK).

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

Propbeanie - I looked at scene.dat from the PRISTINE folder and from the FOTRSU.v80 RC2 folder. There are significant differences. I don't think the scene.dat is the issue though. If it were, I'd be unable to load ANY accurate save games.

For those of you interested and following this issue, The first save game load is OK. The second, third, fourth, etc. save game load, without first quitting the game and restarting is FUBAR. The data contained in the save game(s) are correct. The reading of the data is correct only on the first loading of that save game. The reading of the data is FUBAR if you re-load that "EXACTLY the same" save game. There is something very weird happening and we are trying to track it down.

You might not care whether or not the AI elements of this game are timed correctly to the day/night cycle, but I sure do! Especially with all of the detailed work that the FOTRSU team is doing! I'm not going to speak for Propbeanie, but I believe he cares as well.

If you are playing any versions or combinations of mods other than FOTRSU, then this issue is not affecting you (AFAIK).

Perhaps I will try to save a game and then replicate it. I never used saved games. My only save points are entering and exiting port so they are my only load points. If I die on patrol then I start over. I use the old dead is dead scheme when I play.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

Propbeanie - I looked at scene.dat from the PRISTINE folder and from the FOTRSU.v80 RC2 folder. There are significant differences. I don't think the scene.dat is the issue though. If it were, I'd be unable to load ANY accurate save games...

I found an interesting post:

leovampire's post in "A Question about the moon". Note the date. As for not thinking it's Scene.dat, I don't know what else it could be. FotRSU does not replace the Stock sim & dsd. There are some changes in the Shaders folder "TerrainMapPS.fx", but the files in the "Sky" folder below that are Stock files, like maybe someone was going to edit them at one point in time, but never did. I don't comprehend those script files, but they look like color / texture stuff... ?? I do remember though, getting a similar "time warp" effect in other mods, but I do not recall the circumstances. I have not had a chance to do the old FOTRS yet, but I did used to play that quite a bit...

[propbeanie]

Now, here's some more interesting notes... I was able to replicate losing time-track of my "celestial bodies" the other day, in v0.80. However, that was while testing a Balao, but for other things. I have come back into the game before, after days on patrol, several sinkings, etc., and have had this. I did a wipe of the Save folder though, to clear the data, and I have not been able to replicate it since, using your methodology FrontRunner. I've now tried several submarines besides the Balao. Here is a shot from a Tambor, done on June 3 / 4 1943:



I have a dual-monitor set-up, so the right screen is the screen grab from the 3rd, the left screen is the restored Save of same, after many re-loads of it and other Saves. Part of the problem of course, is the "rock" of the boat. I have not lost my waypoints, though I do remember getting that before, but I do not recall the mod(s) used then. I do not know if I would have lost waypoints the other day when my celestial bodies went "off-the-clock", since I don't often use waypoints, and I don't recall having any set then anyway. I have lost track of how many times I've tried FotRSUv0.80. I have done FOTRSv1.3 at least a half-dozen times, and have not found any issues. I'm still wanting to do Stock and FOTRSv2.0 in SH4 v1.4, and see what happens there. I do not recall which version of FOTRS we took the scene.dat and other files from... I'll ask around about that.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Now, here's some more interesting notes... I was able to replicate losing time-track of my "celestial bodies" the other day, in v0.80. However, that was while testing a Balao, but for other things. I have come back into the game before, after days on patrol, several sinkings, etc., and have had this. I did a wipe of the Save folder though, to clear the data, and I have not been able to replicate it since, using your methodology FrontRunner. I've now tried several submarines besides the Balao.

I have not lost my waypoints, though I do remember getting that before, but I do not recall the mod(s) used then. I do not know if I would have lost waypoints the other day when my celestial bodies went "off-the-clock", since I don't often use waypoints, and I don't recall having any set then anyway. I have lost track of how many times I've tried FotRSUv0.80. I have done FOTRSv1.3 at least a half-dozen times, and have not found any issues. I'm still wanting to do Stock and FOTRSv2.0 in SH4 v1.4, and see what happens there. I do not recall which version of FOTRS we took the scene.dat and other files from... I'll ask around about that.

Propbeanie! - You may be on to something sir! I've just tested a TAMBOR in FORTRSU.v* and I'll be danged, I'm not getting the "BALAO" problem. How could this problem affect only the BALAO? I'm intrigued. I'll have to do some more testing. Of course, I'll be thorough and test ALL boats. Sometimes I think I'm smart by keeping my testing parameters the same. In other words, not trying to change too many variables at once. Sometimes that ends up biting me in the ass! It did not occur to me that this issue could be related to a particular type of submarine, the BALAO.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

Perhaps I will try to save a game and then replicate it. I never used saved games. My only save points are entering and exiting port so they are my only load points. If I die on patrol then I start over. I use the old dead is dead scheme when I play.

Recent testing reveals that this issue is affecting the BALAO, but not the TAMBOR class. I'm about to test ALL boats to see if there are any other boats which exhibit this issue.
Thanks to Propbeanie for giving me the heads up on his observations!

The main reason that I save games is because I like to play, mostly, at 1x, and not use Time Compression. I like to leave the game running and listen to Fred's Radio stations while I attend to household chores, routines and duties. After running the game for 6 straight hours, I sure want to save the game when I go to bed just in case there is a power outage or my cat jumps on the keyboard while I'm sleeping.

My penchant for 1x play led to starting this thread in the first place when I discovered the high-frame rate Celestial Cycle issue. I'm using 1/2 refresh rate (30fps) to keep my Sunset, Sunrise, Moonset, and Moonrise cycles reasonably close to Almanac times. That's the way I roll. If you play using mostly Time Compression, then the frame rate issue is of no major concern.

[Front Runner]

Well, that went well, (NOT). It seems to have made things all the more complicated.
So, I created a new save folder and tested the TENCH, GATO, GAR and TAMBOR. The issue persisted in each case.
So, I went back to my original save folder and retested the results I noted in the above (Happy) post. The TAMBOR is OK in that save folder but NOT in the newly created save folder. The BALAO is not OK in the save folder that the TAMBOR is OK in, (the original save folder.)
Why does the TAMBOR save/load work in the one save folder but not the other?


Yeah, I'm dizzy.......there are too many moving parts.



I'm thinking.....