UK Politics Thread - Page 569

Jimbuna · 11-13-18, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Boris Johnson branded the Brexit deal, which has been “agreed at a technical level” as “utterly unacceptable”. The former Foreign Secretary, who was responding to reports of what the deal might include, added the deal would not be the “right way forward”. He told BBC News: “We have to be pretty careful, but, this has been well-trailed, this has been a chronicle of a death foretold for some months now.
“I think effectively this is pretty much what Olly Robbins and Sabine agreed a few weeks back anyway.

“We are going to stay in the customs union on this deal, we are going to stay effectively in large parts of the single market, and that is vassal state stuff.

“For the first time in a thousand years, this place, this Parliament will not have a say over the laws that govern this country.

“It is a quite incredible state of affairs, it will mean that we are having to accept rules and regulations from Brussels over which we have no say ourselves.
“It is utterly unacceptable to anyone who believes in democracy, it is not the right way forward.”

He demanded that Cabinet ministers resign TONIGHT over the Brexit deal before May has even presented to them, calling for ministers to get tough on May.

Sky News correspondent Kate McCann wrote on Twitter: “Boris Johnson tells me he wants to see Cabinet resignations tonight over Brexit deal. Calls for them to get tough - now is the time.”

Boris Johnson, who resigned over the Prime Minister's Chequers plan, also told the BBC the UK has not been able to protect the “precious union” with the proposed deal.

He added: “I don’t see how you can support it from a democratic point of view. I don’t see how a Unionist can support it. And I don’t see how you can support it if you believe in the political-economic freedom of this country.”

Mr Johnsson also claimed the deal was "making a nonsense of Brexit so I hope the Cabinet will do the right thing and I hope they chuck it out".

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...is-Johnson-BBC

Catfish · 11-13-18, 02:24 PM

If only Mr Johnson would have been at the helm, all this time

Jimbuna · 11-13-18, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

If only Mr Johnson would have been at the helm, all this time

Well I'm certainly no fan of his but he's certainly coming to the fore now that the chips are down.

I'm sticking with my original prediction that a last minute deal will be struck but I'm certainly not in favour of the present deal on offer should the current predictions prove accurate.

Catfish · 11-13-18, 02:44 PM

What is the current deal then. I have no idea. The problem is Ireland, since day one. I have the impression that the problem is brexit itself, not the negotiators. You cannot sit around a blue lake and talk it into being green.

Jimbuna · 11-13-18, 02:47 PM

The current deal is pure speculation atm but if what Johnson and Mogg are stating turns out to be correct then it will place the UK in a worse position than she is currently in and that in itself would be undemocratic and totally unnaceptable.

STEED · 11-13-18, 02:51 PM

WELCOME TO STEED'S CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTIONS FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

PM May will not stand down or be pushed to go.

Not one cabinet minister will step down

PM May will get it though the HoC.

STEED · 11-13-18, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

What is the current deal then.

Don't know yet but what is known its 500 pages long.

STEED · 11-13-18, 03:09 PM

I am sick and tired of Boris Mog and all the rest bleating like sheep and not getting off their fat arses doing something about it.

Typical politicians strutting around like peacocks on the media stage.

Catfish · 11-13-18, 03:58 PM

So no one knows how or what the deal is, but the deal is bad, because .. what? Because Johnson says it? I am trying very hard not to get more cynical, or sarcastic.
It does not matter whether soft or hard brexit, that England and the whole UK will be bader off trade-wise than before is not exactly rocket science.

STEED · 11-13-18, 04:34 PM

On behalf of Catfish

OH SHUT UP!

Skybird · 11-13-18, 06:11 PM

I still cannot imagine a solution to the Irish question acceptable to the EU that would not be at the cost of the UK, and I still cannot imagine a solution acceptable to the UK being agreed to by the EU.

If now the EU did agree to this deal, it means it must be messy for the UK.

I expect to learn the deal hollows out the very idea of Brexit. And maybe that was the plan from all beginning on, I never trusted May. I expect to learn that the UK is worse off than before with this.

In other words: I expect to learn that it all is just a ridiculous farce whose authors try to get away with it. And that the EU is the big victor in this.

I expected more drive and resolve from Britain when all this started over one and a half years ago. Apparently I overestimated it. Well: I learn the lesson.

Most likely there is a wishy-washy wording on Ireland and a temporary solution but with open ends that silently will simply be handled like becoming a final solution. Same business than before, just with the UK having lost even more influence and rights. If the people let Mayget away with this, than they indeed deserve nothing better than this. Storming Downing Street and burning it down in self defence, sounds more legitimate every second.

Catfish · 11-14-18, 03:09 AM

^ since you care so much for "individuality" and the "suppressed", may i remind that Ireland was against a brexit, as was Scotland.

I can't see the EU to be the "victor" without England or the UK taking part in international trade decisions of the EU, when it comes to advice, negotiating and common sense.

@Steed

ok

Skybird · 11-14-18, 03:59 AM

Different to some other examples, the Northern Irish also voted for staying with the UK. At least Jim said so - if you remember, I asked him on right this just a week ago or so. Must be in this thread. Look it up.

When they say they do not want to separate from the UK, why should the Northern Irish people have the right to overrule the referendum'S majoirty for Brexit?

If the Irish say they want to separate, they have my support (like I also said before about the Scottish), I only insist that they carry their own burden and do not let their bills paid by us.

No people or govrnment has the right to enforce its rule on another people that does not want to be governed by them. Not the Spaniard and Catalonia. Not the Brits and Scotland, Norther Ireland. (Not the Bavarians/Lower Saxons/etc etc, and Germany). Such a right can never be a right since it is a most serious violation of natural human rights. It means owning people, and that is called slavery.

Catfish · 11-14-18, 04:13 AM

^?

Quote:

Different to some other examples, the Northern Irish also voted for staying with the UK

Northern Ireland: Remain in EU 55,8 percent; leave 44,2 percent.

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...es-vote-brexit

"England will not agree to any deal which results in Northern Ireland being treated differently from the rest of the United Kingdom."

I wonder how Mr Johnson would solve this. My take is he cannot, and he does not want to. Insult and smear and criticize, and run away when responsibility calls. Leave the mess you yourself created to others, and then criticize them again when they try to make the best of it.
Even if they called your bluff, and lies. God-awful.

Jimbuna · 11-14-18, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

WELCOME TO STEED'S CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTIONS FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

PM May will not stand down or be pushed to go.

Not one cabinet minister will step down

PM May will get it though the HoC.

A high chance of being wrong on all three.

11-13-18, 02:24 PM	#8522
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,776 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	If only Mr Johnson would have been at the helm, all this time __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

11-13-18, 02:44 PM	#8524
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,776 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	What is the current deal then. I have no idea. The problem is Ireland, since day one. I have the impression that the problem is brexit itself, not the negotiators. You cannot sit around a blue lake and talk it into being green. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

11-13-18, 02:47 PM	#8525
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,678 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The current deal is pure speculation atm but if what Johnson and Mogg are stating turns out to be correct then it will place the UK in a worse position than she is currently in and that in itself would be undemocratic and totally unnaceptable. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-13-18, 02:51 PM	#8526
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	WELCOME TO STEED'S CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTIONS FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS. PM May will not stand down or be pushed to go. Not one cabinet minister will step down PM May will get it though the HoC. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT! Last edited by STEED; 11-13-18 at 03:11 PM.

11-13-18, 03:09 PM	#8528
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I am sick and tired of Boris Mog and all the rest bleating like sheep and not getting off their fat arses doing something about it. Typical politicians strutting around like peacocks on the media stage. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

11-13-18, 03:58 PM	#8529
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,776 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	So no one knows how or what the deal is, but the deal is bad, because .. what? Because Johnson says it? I am trying very hard not to get more cynical, or sarcastic. It does not matter whether soft or hard brexit, that England and the whole UK will be bader off trade-wise than before is not exactly rocket science. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

11-13-18, 04:34 PM	#8530
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	On behalf of Catfish OH SHUT UP! __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

11-13-18, 06:11 PM	#8531
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,666 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I still cannot imagine a solution to the Irish question acceptable to the EU that would not be at the cost of the UK, and I still cannot imagine a solution acceptable to the UK being agreed to by the EU. If now the EU did agree to this deal, it means it must be messy for the UK. I expect to learn the deal hollows out the very idea of Brexit. And maybe that was the plan from all beginning on, I never trusted May. I expect to learn that the UK is worse off than before with this. In other words: I expect to learn that it all is just a ridiculous farce whose authors try to get away with it. And that the EU is the big victor in this. I expected more drive and resolve from Britain when all this started over one and a half years ago. Apparently I overestimated it. Well: I learn the lesson. Most likely there is a wishy-washy wording on Ireland and a temporary solution but with open ends that silently will simply be handled like becoming a final solution. Same business than before, just with the UK having lost even more influence and rights. If the people let Mayget away with this, than they indeed deserve nothing better than this. Storming Downing Street and burning it down in self defence, sounds more legitimate every second. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-14-18, 03:09 AM	#8532
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,776 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ since you care so much for "individuality" and the "suppressed", may i remind that Ireland was against a brexit, as was Scotland. I can't see the EU to be the "victor" without England or the UK taking part in international trade decisions of the EU, when it comes to advice, negotiating and common sense. @Steed ok __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

11-14-18, 03:59 AM	#8533
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,666 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Different to some other examples, the Northern Irish also voted for staying with the UK. At least Jim said so - if you remember, I asked him on right this just a week ago or so. Must be in this thread. Look it up. When they say they do not want to separate from the UK, why should the Northern Irish people have the right to overrule the referendum'S majoirty for Brexit? If the Irish say they want to separate, they have my support (like I also said before about the Scottish), I only insist that they carry their own burden and do not let their bills paid by us. No people or govrnment has the right to enforce its rule on another people that does not want to be governed by them. Not the Spaniard and Catalonia. Not the Brits and Scotland, Norther Ireland. (Not the Bavarians/Lower Saxons/etc etc, and Germany). Such a right can never be a right since it is a most serious violation of natural human rights. It means owning people, and that is called slavery. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.