US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 386

Bilge_Rat · 11-06-18, 03:48 PM

I would not worry too much about tonite. The one thing that is certain is that no matter who wins, nothing much will change. The last three mid-terms: 2006, 2010 and 2014 were supposed to be major realignments...notice much of a change?

I also got a laugh of the post Jimbuna made in the 100 years ago thread…

6 november 1918:

Quote:

As the result of yesterday’s midterm elections in the United States, the Republicans take control over the House and Senate.

vienna · 11-06-18, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Gerrymandering. An image says more than a thousand words. Three images, in this case.

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/p...red/index.html

Strange how these and many other - considered "legal"

- ways of manipulating election outcomes still are tolerated.

California had a real problem with gerrymandering in its history and continued until 2008 when a State Proposition was passed creating a Commission (California Citizens Redistricting Commission) to redraw the Congressional district following the 2010 US Census. Part of the push for the Commission's creation was complaints from the CA-GOP over allegations of CA-DEMs manipulating the redraw process:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califo...ing_Commission

The belief of CA-GOP members was a new, non-partisan redraw committee would break the CA-DEMs stranglehold on the political life of CA, making it easier to get CA-GOP candidates elected. Interestingly, it was the Far Right CA-GOP factions who expressed the most concerns about using a non-partisan Commission for the redraw; the theory behind their concerns was attributed to their desire to be able to, likewise as the CA-DEMs prior to the Commission, manipulate district lines, if the CA-GOP ever took back control of the CA State government. The Commission redrew the district maps and, instead of gaining new seats, the CA-GOP wound up losing more seats than before...

<O>

Onkel Neal · 11-06-18, 06:13 PM

Strap in, it's gonna be a rough night.

Catfish · 11-07-18, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

I hear Catfish is so happy he's going to streak around the yard. [...]

What?

Me, happy?

Skybird · 11-07-18, 05:04 AM

Presidential election campaign de facto begins TODAY.

Skybird · 11-07-18, 05:24 AM

I think for Trump it is indeed a win. His party is set to defend majority in the Senate, even stronger thana before, so can block impeachment attempts. And the Democratic majority in Congress may be able to call up endlessly committees of inquiry, but I read that several leading Democrats won in quite conservative electoral districts and so this might reduce their appetite for confronting a conservative govenment too strongly, because they have to deal with their conservative voters.

What I notice is that Trump turned this election into a personal thing although it was not about electing the president. And it did NOT backfire against him.

I indeed think this day was a win for Trump. And I think more than before that no matter whether one likes it or not: he probably will get reelected in two years. The Democrats still have no strong name to challenge him serioulsy.

Over the long time to come, the changing demography however will reward the Democrats' now rather open shift to the socialist left side of politics.

Its all a foolish game, honestly said. I play the numbers and statistics, but I do not take it serious, nor do I think it is an especially clever game with a well thought-out rulebook. Plenty of manipulation, and subverting the rules, is part of it.

Onkel Neal · 11-07-18, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Over the long time to come, the changing demography however will reward the Democrats' now rather open shift to the socialist left side of politics.

That. And with it goes America. Nothing can halt this erosion of our culture and greatness. It's just a natural progression, a result of too much success and a gradual psychological shift away from accountability to empathy.

Skybird · 11-07-18, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

That. And with it goes America. Nothing can halt this erosion of our culture and greatness. It's just a natural progression, a result of too much success and a gradual psychological shift away from accountability to empathy.

Fantastic wording! I never have heard it being put into these words before: from accountability to empathy. I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree.

Jimbuna · 11-07-18, 07:18 AM

Looks like it all panned out as expected/predicted.

Platapus · 11-07-18, 08:34 AM

At my precinct, we had more people vote in this election than voted in the presidential election of 2016. We came very close to 70% voter turnout including the absentee ballots.

The citizens were motivated to get out and vote and that's a good thing

Catfish · 11-07-18, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...] shift away from accountability to empathy. I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree.

So what does it mean? What has one to do with the other?
I know what Neal means but those words have no connection.
The sense is like "from responsibility to digestibility".

Why should a responsible and accountable man have no empathy?

Platapus · 11-07-18, 09:12 AM

Only in American Political circles can empathy be considered a undesirable trait I guess.

u crank · 11-07-18, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Why should a responsible and accountable man have no empathy?

Good question. The answer is they should. The problems start when irresponsible and unaccountable men have misguided empathy towards groups and individuals who seek just that. What you get then is a whole culture of victim hood, constant outrage and the worst of political correctness.

The end result, sadly is more irresponsible and unaccountable people.

Skybird · 11-07-18, 10:08 AM

What Neal pointed at implies - and he is right in that - that there is not both accountability and empathy in the ideological change, but that the latter gets boosted at the cost of the first. Its not a mutual existence of accountability and empathy, but a shift from the one to the other. And that is correct, and all to obvious obvious observation.

Good men do good deeds and pay for them with their own money and take the responsibility for the consequences, good or bad, no matter what the others aroudn them do. Good-doers however do what is by ideology labelled a politically correct deed and demand the others to pay for it, they also leave it to the others to face the consequences, and refuse the responsbility for these. Heart rules over head. Emotion trumps reason.

Long-term consequences, and the question of affordability - you better don't ask about that. All you will get are nasty denounciations.

Bilge_Rat · 11-07-18, 10:20 AM

so mid-terms are over. Thank god. Now we have two months before the 2020 election begins…

main take aways for me.

1. trump's 2016 election has been legitimised. The main narrative for the past two years from Democrats was that Trump's election was an unfortunate accident and that voters would repudiate him the first chance they got. Well that did not happen last night, GOP losses are more or less the historical average and a lot less than the shellacking Obama got in 2010.

2. Trump's takeover of the GOP is complete. The GOP did not just increase GOP senators. Trump's main GOP critics, McCain, Corker and Flake are gone and the new crop of GOP senators were all hand picked by Trump and owe their election to him. Expect the GOP Senators to be even more pro-Trump going forward.

11-06-18, 06:13 PM	#5778
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Strap in, it's gonna be a rough night. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

11-07-18, 05:04 AM	#5780
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,725 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Presidential election campaign de facto begins TODAY. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-07-18, 05:24 AM	#5781
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,725 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think for Trump it is indeed a win. His party is set to defend majority in the Senate, even stronger thana before, so can block impeachment attempts. And the Democratic majority in Congress may be able to call up endlessly committees of inquiry, but I read that several leading Democrats won in quite conservative electoral districts and so this might reduce their appetite for confronting a conservative govenment too strongly, because they have to deal with their conservative voters. What I notice is that Trump turned this election into a personal thing although it was not about electing the president. And it did NOT backfire against him. I indeed think this day was a win for Trump. And I think more than before that no matter whether one likes it or not: he probably will get reelected in two years. The Democrats still have no strong name to challenge him serioulsy. Over the long time to come, the changing demography however will reward the Democrats' now rather open shift to the socialist left side of politics. Its all a foolish game, honestly said. I play the numbers and statistics, but I do not take it serious, nor do I think it is an especially clever game with a well thought-out rulebook. Plenty of manipulation, and subverting the rules, is part of it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-07-18, 07:18 AM	#5784
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,044 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Looks like it all panned out as expected/predicted. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-07-18, 08:34 AM	#5785
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,402 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	At my precinct, we had more people vote in this election than voted in the presidential election of 2016. We came very close to 70% voter turnout including the absentee ballots. The citizens were motivated to get out and vote and that's a good thing __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-07-18, 09:12 AM	#5787
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,402 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Only in American Political circles can empathy be considered a undesirable trait I guess. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-07-18, 10:08 AM	#5789
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,725 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	What Neal pointed at implies - and he is right in that - that there is not both accountability and empathy in the ideological change, but that the latter gets boosted at the cost of the first. Its not a mutual existence of accountability and empathy, but a shift from the one to the other. And that is correct, and all to obvious obvious observation. Good men do good deeds and pay for them with their own money and take the responsibility for the consequences, good or bad, no matter what the others aroudn them do. Good-doers however do what is by ideology labelled a politically correct deed and demand the others to pay for it, they also leave it to the others to face the consequences, and refuse the responsbility for these. Heart rules over head. Emotion trumps reason. Long-term consequences, and the question of affordability - you better don't ask about that. All you will get are nasty denounciations. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-07-18, 10:20 AM	#5790
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	so mid-terms are over. Thank god. Now we have two months before the 2020 election begins… main take aways for me. 1. trump's 2016 election has been legitimised. The main narrative for the past two years from Democrats was that Trump's election was an unfortunate accident and that voters would repudiate him the first chance they got. Well that did not happen last night, GOP losses are more or less the historical average and a lot less than the shellacking Obama got in 2010. 2. Trump's takeover of the GOP is complete. The GOP did not just increase GOP senators. Trump's main GOP critics, McCain, Corker and Flake are gone and the new crop of GOP senators were all hand picked by Trump and owe their election to him. Expect the GOP Senators to be even more pro-Trump going forward. __________________