U.S.S. Virginia Article

[Mspot]

Now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, on the Virginia class submarine -- at least according to the article linked from this site, I thought I would share what I did in the Virginia text file for the 2004-campaign in order to affect the requisite changes.


(Apparently, I deleted, as opposed to commenting out, the number seven and eight torpedo tubes. According to published data, and apparent from some Virginia photographs, the submarine has but four torpedo tubes. Still, for gaming purposes, I like six as opposed to the eight torpedo tubes as provided by the designer of the 2004-campaign. Not the designer's fault, really, as the model he used has eight torpedo tubes and there is really nothing he could do to change eight torpedo tubes appearing on the submarine).


To anyone wondering, I have played numerous missions in the 2004-campaign with the provided changes with no issues.



------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Weapon Systems]
//Torpedo Mounts



//Tube 1

MeshPosition=-0.0828,0.0045,0.56

MeshRotation=0,340,0

TorpedoSpawnPosition=-0.0828,0.0045,0.56

TorpedoEffectPosition=-0.0828,0.0045,0.56



//Tube 2

MeshPosition=0.0828,0.0045,0.56

MeshRotation=0,20,0

TorpedoSpawnPosition=0.0828,0.0045,0.56

TorpedoEffectPosition=0.0828,0.0045,0.56



//Tube 3

MeshPosition=-0.0807,-0.016,0.548

MeshRotation=0,340,0

TorpedoSpawnPosition=-0.0807,-0.016,0.548

TorpedoEffectPosition=-0.0807,-0.016,0.548


//Tube 4

MeshPosition=0.0807,-0.016,0.548

MeshRotation=0,20,0
TorpedoSpawnPosition=0.0807,-0.016,0.548

TorpedoEffectPosition=0.0807,-0.016,0.548

//Tube 5

MeshPosition=0.0828,0.0045,0.56
MeshRotation=0,20,0
TorpedoSpawnPosition=0.0828,0.0045,0.56
TorpedoEffectPosition=0.0828,0.0045,0.56

//Tube 6

MeshPosition=0.0807,-0.016,0.548
MeshRotation=0,20,0
TorpedoSpawnPosition=0.0807,-0.016,0.548
TorpedoEffectPosition=0.0807,-0.016,0.548



//VLS Launch Position

MeshPosition=0,0.0785,0.5816

MeshRotation=-90,0,0

TorpedoSpawnPosition=0,0.0785,0.5816

TorpedoEffectPosition=0,0.0785,0.5816


--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mspot]

Interestingly: after perusing numerous published photographs of the Seawolf and Virginia class submarines, it seems that indeed the Virginia class submarine has six torpedo tubes and the Seawolf class has eight.


Further: while both over-all outward physical designs resemble the other, there are noticeable, if not very minor, almost insignificant, differences. With a more or less few minor differences, hats off to the designer of the 2004-campaign mod (Lt. J.G. Beam, I believe) as he got several or more of those right -- including, perhaps most notably, what he refers to as the chin sonar. Obviously, there are some differences he could do nothing about as he is working with the only 3D-model for that class available (based on the Seawolf).


Of the many interesting items of note with and between those two classes of submarine is that it seems, from looking at them, that there would be little to no room for vertical launch systems as there are on Ohio and LA-class submarines because of the seemingly relatively little distance between the bow sonar dome and the sail.


Another, and the last, interestingly perceived visually referenced difference between the Virginia and Seawolf -- even though both have it -- is the hull mounted convex panel additions for which I have read so very little about. Most would have you believe they are a passive hull mounted sonar array -- which they may well be. Some would have you believe that they are a non-defined weapons platform. Most interestingly, according to the pictures I surveyed, is that those panels are larger in dimensions than on the Virginia than the they are on the Seawolf. Apparently, anyway.



So, I guess that what I am saying here is that while there are some irregularities and inconsistencies, some of these people have done their homework and or know what they are talking about.


Kudos to you!

[shipkiller1]

All Virginia Class boats have four torpedo tubes and 12 Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes.


From SSN-784 and above the 12 individual VLS tubes have been replaced by two SSGN style tube with 12 weapon slots.



SSN-21 boats (Seawolf etc) have eight torpedo tubes and no VLS.


As stated in several non-classified articles released by the US Navy, the three large panels on each side of the boat are the WAA (Wide Aperture Array). Part of the Sonar System.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

All Virginia Class boats have four torpedo tubes and 12 Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes.


From SSN-784 and above the 12 individual VLS tubes have been replaced by two SSGN style tube with 12 weapon slots.



SSN-21 boats (Seawolf etc) have eight torpedo tubes and no VLS.


As stated in several non-classified articles released by the US Navy, the three large panels on each side of the boat are the WAA (Wide Aperture Array). Part of the Sonar System.

[Mspot]

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

All Virginia Class boats have four torpedo tubes and 12 Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes.


From SSN-784 and above the 12 individual VLS tubes have been replaced by two SSGN style tube with 12 weapon slots.



SSN-21 boats (Seawolf etc) have eight torpedo tubes and no VLS.


As stated in several non-classified articles released by the US Navy, the three large panels on each side of the boat are the WAA (Wide Aperture Array). Part of the Sonar System.

Interesting note about four tubes on the Virginia class. I'll have to look again as I am certain the pics I've seen show six -- three each side. But, I'll take your word for it.


As for the WAA, part of the sonar system: I figured that. My note regarding that was that the pictures I've seen indicate that the Virginia class WAA panels are significantly larger than those on the Seawolf class.


Of all the other many differences, the last two, for now, are: I am assuming a hull array. Or has that been incorporated into the WAA? Or can you comment publicly? Then, the notes, questions regarding a popular as opposed to a propeller -- which many speculate was/is utilized on the Seawolf class; and the "X" fins/planes arrangement on the SSBNX program which infers it, too, is employed on the Virginia class.

[shipkiller1]

Originally Posted by Mspot

Interesting note about four tubes on the Virginia class. I'll have to look again as I am certain the pics I've seen show six -- three each side. But, I'll take your word for it.


As for the WAA, part of the sonar system: I figured that. My note regarding that was that the pictures I've seen indicate that the Virginia class WAA panels are significantly larger than those on the Seawolf class.


Of all the other many differences, the last two, for now, are: I am assuming a hull array. Or has that been incorporated into the WAA? Or can you comment publicly? Then, the notes, questions regarding a popular as opposed to a propeller -- which many speculate was/is utilized on the Seawolf class; and the "X" fins/planes arrangement on the SSBNX program which infers it, too, is employed on the Virginia class.

Not going to talk about any more about this topic with you. I had a big response written to you about your questions, until I noticed that you really do not know anything about US submarines, and you are fishing for information.



Everything you talk about is in the official US Navy Press Releases.


Go troll some where else.

[ragnar1242]

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

Not going to talk about any more about this topic with you. I had a big response written to you about your questions, until I noticed that you really do not know anything about US submarines, and you are fishing for information.



Everything you talk about is in the official US Navy Press Releases.


Go troll some where else.

Yeah they are odd questions. All someone needs to do is look up pictures of any Virginia boat and get most of those questions answered.

[Mspot]

Really? Weird questions, and fishing for information?


I read, until approximately ten years ago, numerous, and I mean numerous, books, pamphlets, booklets, and articles on U.S. Naval ships -- surfaced and submerged. All were written and published by well respected people. I was, for a time, considered fairly well educated on the U.S. Navy's capabilities. The U.S. Air Force as well.



The fact that I don't have the time to do that research anymore means that I'm asking weird questions or fishing for information? Really?



Anyone whose been in the military, worked on government contracts, seen, heard and read the nearly innumerable aamounts of "publicly available information" knows that much of it is intentionally mis-represented. Forget my military stint. The time I spent as a DOD and DOS contractor during this century did more to convince me of such than all the disparities in published data.



The other fact that I am not a Submariner and am asking questions of those who are means that I am fishing, and asking weird questions? Really? That's like me accusing a Submariner of doing the same thing when asking me a question aabout contracting and or working OCONUS. If I think the question shouldn't bbe answered I tell the person that's a question I can't or won't answer. I certainly don't call them out -- unless, on a rare occasion, that person in question has intentionally mis-represented themselves, and usually on when done for their personal gain.



I am curious. As stated, in my experience, public data is often not accurate -- intentionally. That's why I asked of those who know. If You can't or don't want to answer then don't. But don't try calling me out. Especially when/if I question your response. That's your problem.


If I was looking for classified information, I certainly wouldn't be looking here.

[ETR3(SS)]

I had an aunt who would ask me about depth and speed of my boat repeatedly, saying "who was she going to tell, she was just curious, blah blah blah." It got to the point that if she asked me again I was going to report it to the FBI. Unless you're a submariner, you can't possibly understand our mindset and why we'd give you just such a response. Suffice to say that submarines and submarine operations are an intel gold mine for our enemies. I stand with my brothers on this one.

[ragnar1242]

Originally Posted by Mspot

Really? Weird questions, and fishing for information?


I read, until approximately ten years ago, numerous, and I mean numerous, books, pamphlets, booklets, and articles on U.S. Naval ships -- surfaced and submerged. All were written and published by well respected people. I was, for a time, considered fairly well educated on the U.S. Navy's capabilities. The U.S. Air Force as well.



The fact that I don't have the time to do that research anymore means that I'm asking weird questions or fishing for information? Really?



Anyone whose been in the military, worked on government contracts, seen, heard and read the nearly innumerable aamounts of "publicly available information" knows that much of it is intentionally mis-represented. Forget my military stint. The time I spent as a DOD and DOS contractor during this century did more to convince me of such than all the disparities in published data.



The other fact that I am not a Submariner and am asking questions of those who are means that I am fishing, and asking weird questions? Really? That's like me accusing a Submariner of doing the same thing when asking me a question aabout contracting and or working OCONUS. If I think the question shouldn't bbe answered I tell the person that's a question I can't or won't answer. I certainly don't call them out -- unless, on a rare occasion, that person in question has intentionally mis-represented themselves, and usually on when done for their personal gain.



I am curious. As stated, in my experience, public data is often not accurate -- intentionally. That's why I asked of those who know. If You can't or don't want to answer then don't. But don't try calling me out. Especially when/if I question your response. That's your problem.


If I was looking for classified information, I certainly wouldn't be looking here.

You're asking for WAA and propulsor information on a public forum and wonder why some people get a little cautious? Even if its public info, most of us have signed insane amounts of page 13's telling us to shut up about it.

Do we know you personally? Probably not. We're taught to really not trust anyone so if that offends you, I apologize but that's just part of it.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Mspot

The fact that I don't have the time to do that research anymore means that I'm asking weird questions or fishing for information? Really?

A simple Google search yields these photos and plenty others that should answer some of your questions:

[Rufus Shinra]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

I had an aunt who would ask me about depth and speed of my boat repeatedly, saying "who was she going to tell, she was just curious, blah blah blah." It got to the point that if she asked me again I was going to report it to the FBI. Unless you're a submariner, you can't possibly understand our mindset and why we'd give you just such a response. Suffice to say that submarines and submarine operations are an intel gold mine for our enemies. I stand with my brothers on this one.

There's the default physicist answer: use and abuse error bars.


"The submarine can dive 10,451,465 feet, plus or minus 10,451,464 feet. It can go 291,374,959 knots, plus or minus 291,374,958."


Layman's translation: its maximum depth is somewhere between one feet and the radius of Earth while its maximum speed is somewhere between one knot and the speed of light. Technically correct (best kind of correct) and it will satisfy idiotic curiosity with big numbers (someone who is silly enough to repeatedly ask questions to a submariner beyond "what is your name" is unlikely to realize the - lack of - value of the answer).

[ET2SN]

Actually, we can get into as much trouble providing mis-information or dis-information as we could by giving you the straight poop.

I try to reply to real world questions so I can at least get you into the ballpark but you have to understand how much of a risk that poses. All of us have old security clearances that won't fully expire until long after we're gone. Ask me something in 2094 and I should be able to answer it. Until then, sorry. I was born in 1961 so do the math, those old clearances are meant to have some teeth.

It also helps to understand how much hot water we can get into. Nevermind Levenworth, imagine what happens when "PENDING IRS INVESTIGATION ONGOING" is stamped at the top of your credit report in large letters.
Try to get a credit card or bank loan or job interview with something like that hanging over you.

The rest of you are cool but there's no way you're worth that kind of hassle.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Actually, we can get into as much trouble providing mis-information or dis-information as we could by giving you the straight poop.

I try to reply to real world questions so I can at least get you into the ballpark but you have to understand how much of a risk that poses. All of us have old security clearances that won't fully expire until long after we're gone. Ask me something in 2094 and I should be able to answer it. Until then, sorry. I was born in 1961 so do the math, those old clearances are meant to have some teeth.

It also helps to understand how much hot water we can get into. Nevermind Levenworth, imagine what happens when "PENDING IRS INVESTIGATION ONGOING" is stamped at the top of your credit report in large letters.
Try to get a credit card or bank loan or job interview with something like that hanging over you.

The rest of you are cool but there's no way you're worth that kind of hassle.

Yep! There was at one point an official (if I remember right) press release that basically stated the capabilities of an SS(B)N to be the same as a WWII Fleet Boat, and that's what we were told we could say.