No Man's Sky - new awesome game update 'Next'

[XenonSurf]

Originally Posted by Dowly

The point isn't how the game is now, it's what Hello Games did at launch and just before it. They lied repeatedly to keep the hype going and get pre-orders before it came out and people realised at what a sorry state the game actually was in.

All this may well be true, for sure it's true that the game was rushed-out with a lot of promised features missing. But please consider: Hello Games were dependent on Sony Corporation and their contractual decision to realease the game at some point, I think Sony didn't care about the state of the game, the 'Hype' was enough for them to make business, it's a questionable practise but certainly profitable as for a marketing decision. At some point, I think, Hello Games were confronted to release the game within a few days, and this 'instruction' came out-of-the-blue.
You can easily protect yourself from all that: I never pre-order any game, I rely on youtube videos, especially 'Let's Play' videos, or written reviews and I can very quickly see if there are major flaws or contradictions with the initial trailers or promo videos (which I never give much credits anyway, a video for selling a game cannot be exactly informative, it's just a 'promo'.) Besides, what do I gain by pre-ordering? I cannot play the game anyway, so I don't see any point doing such a stupid thing, and I cannot impede others to be idiots and lament later...


Despite the blattant extracts of Angry Joe's video seeing Sean Murray (main author of No Man's Sky) responding to very generic questions of journalists (or kind of), I think that he was answering by memory relying on what was in the game *at that time* before release. So it's difficult and inappropriate to just say he lied. The decision to take out features of a game is a practise of ALL major games and have different very practical or legal reasons, the FSK (youth protection), bugs in the game that could hamper future sellings, features not working as intended, copyright reasons and whatnot else, all valid reasons to put things out. At the time of Sean Murray's interview he could not exactly anticipate his actions, also maybe he was a bit naive and simplistic in his responses, so one can be obset because of that, but making him a lyer is just another sort of bad hype, nothing more. Nothing to do with the real situation at the office of HG or in SM's mind.

Besides of all that, if you would like to buy the game today, then the point IS about how the game fares now. On GOG and on Steam, you don't have to pay the full price if you are so patient to wait for sales that can go down -50% of the release price. So the monetary aspect, the game's price is neither a good argument against the game, and never is anyway.


It seems that the lesson to be learned about all this is: A game developer also ought to be a good entreperneur, a good businessman and marketing expert, also a profound psychologist anticipating people's reactions other than a charismatic appearing Leader... A bit too much, isn't it ? Let's not fly away but keep our boots on the ground of reality, please.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Despite the blattant extracts of Angry Joe's video seeing Sean Murray (main author of No Man's Sky) responding to very generic questions of journalists (or kind of), I think that he was answering by memory relying on what was in the game *at that time* before release. So it's difficult and inappropriate to just say he lied. The decision to take out features of a game is a practise of ALL major games and have different very practical or legal reasons, the FSK (youth protection), bugs in the game that could hamper future sellings, features not working as intended, copyright reasons and whatnot else, all valid reasons to put things out. At the time of Sean Murray's interview he could not exactly anticipate his actions, also maybe he was a bit naive and simplistic in his responses, so one can be obset because of that, but making him a lyer is just another sort of bad hype, nothing more. Nothing to do with the real situation at the office of HG or in SM's mind.

Then what would you call it if not lying? Sean Murray repeatedly said certain features will be or already are in the game. Game footage of a different build was shown all the way until the release of the game. At no point was it conveyed to the consumer that what they're seeing/hearing is not what they're getting.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Does the company deserve your money?

If I'm to believe the keyboard warriors on forums, blogs and other sites the answer would be ''No'' but they bought/buy it anway and keep on supporting them and/or other companies doing the same with their wallets.

Originally Posted by Dowly

But for some reason people are willing to give them some slack in this case and I find it all a bit irritating. Come next EA controversy and the same people are there with their pitchforks, not understanding it is them who are the problem, not the company.

Yep the same people who still go out and buy again and again EA's unfinished, bug ridden, DLC Deluxe Edition/Pre-order/Lootboxes/Booster pack ridden nonesense for a price that makes me wonder.......are they stupid? Yes they are.

You think they'd learn one day but I keep stumbling on the same articles again and again so I think for some it's worse not being able to play a garbage of a Star Wars Battlefront game so they keep on supporting the company regardless the pricetag the game's at.

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

You can easily protect yourself from all that: I never pre-order any game, I rely on youtube videos, especially 'Let's Play' videos, or written reviews and I can very quickly see if there are major flaws or contradictions with the initial trailers or promo videos (which I never give much credits anyway, a video for selling a game cannot be exactly informative, it's just a 'promo'.) Besides, what do I gain by pre-ordering? I cannot play the game anyway, so I don't see any point doing such a stupid thing, and I cannot impede others to be idiots and lament later...

I take it you where not paying attention with No Man's Sky.

Despite the blattant extracts of Angry Joe's video seeing Sean Murray (main author of No Man's Sky) responding to very generic questions of journalists (or kind of), I think that he was answering by memory relying on what was in the game *at that time* before release. So it's difficult and inappropriate to just say he lied. The decision to take out features of a game is a practise of ALL major games and have different very practical or legal reasons, the FSK (youth protection), bugs in the game that could hamper future sellings, features not working as intended, copyright reasons and whatnot else, all valid reasons to put things out. At the time of Sean Murray's interview he could not exactly anticipate his actions, also maybe he was a bit naive and simplistic in his responses, so one can be obset because of that, but making him a lyer is just another sort of bad hype, nothing more. Nothing to do with the real situation at the office of HG or in SM's mind.

So he tells you and shows you things that will be in the game, game's released and those things are not in the game. What do you call that then?

Besides of all that, if you would like to buy the game today, then the point IS about how the game fares now. On GOG and on Steam, you don't have to pay the full price if you are so patient to wait for sales that can go down -50% of the release price. So the monetary aspect, the game's price is neither a good argument against the game, and never is anyway.

But a game developer that lied,played you and does not deliver at release what was promised is a good argument to never do business with them again regardless the pricetag and state the game is in as the state it is now should've been the state at release, period.

It seems that the lesson to be learned about all this is: A game developer also ought to be a good entreperneur, a good businessman and marketing expert, also a profound psychologist anticipating people's reactions other than a charismatic appearing Leader... A bit too much, isn't it ? Let's not fly away but keep our boots on the ground of reality, please.

Ow I think you've flown far away already because the lesson you seem to draw out of this makes no sense to what's being discussed here.

[Skybird]

BTW, "Empyrion" maybe is the better game in this genre anyway...!? More complex!?

[XenonSurf]

Sorry, normally I would not reply to all such nonsense, but it's worth taking the effort because you all go far off-topic. My intention is in the first line of my first post, bringing to the attention a game to space game lovers. Nothing more, nothing less. And I don't take a dime of your 'religious' believes about the company and the game developer. All this doesn't matter when I play, it's that simple.
Here some corrections for your deviations:

Originally Posted by HunterICX

I take it you where not paying attention with No Man's Sky.

Absolutely not, where did I tell that I bought the game at release? I've bought it after Foundation update where the game already had everything 'in' what I wanted.

Originally Posted by HunterICX

So he tells you and shows you things that will be in the game, game's released and those things are not in the game. What do you call that then?

I call your statement an 'interpretation' of the facts, unless you are member of the dev team and know all what you say for sure. Otherwise I have given a good explanation why things can be taken out of a game, did you read them at all?

Originally Posted by HunterICX

But a game developer that lied,played you and does not deliver at release what was promised is a good argument to never do business with them again regardless the pricetag and state the game is in as the state it is now should've been the state at release, period.

What a fuss...why should I ever care what a dev says about the game, what counts is what *I* as a player have to say about the game...And again you must have a 'crystal sphere' to read in the mind of SM, explain me the magic some day...

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Ow I think you've flown far away already because the lesson you seem to draw out of this makes no sense to what's being discussed here.

Sorry guy, but you go very off-topic and I have to correct you. Maybe you think my post is sort of a promo? Then you are wrong, it's just an info that fits this thread category. Your opinion is welcome, but don't get personal please

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Sorry, normally I would not reply to all such nonsense, but it's worth taking the effort because you all go far off-topic. My intention is in the first line of my first post, bringing to the attention a game to space game lovers. Nothing more, nothing less. And I don't take a dime of your 'religious' believes about the company and the game developer. All this doesn't matter when I play, it's that simple.
Here some corrections for your deviations:

Religious beliefs? can't recall making anything up about the company so not sure what your angle is there.

Absolutely not, where did I tell that I bought the game at release? I've bought it after Foundation update where the game already had everything 'in' what I wanted.

Where did I state that you did? I didn't. You stated that you check reviews, let's play etc etc on Youtube so how did you miss the part where everyone was pretty pissed of that SM basically didn't deliver on the promises he made and released an entirely different game to what has been shown to everybody?

I call your statement an 'interpretation' of the facts, unless you are member of the dev team and know all what you say for sure. Otherwise I have given a good explanation why things can be taken out of a game, did you read them at all?

I did but SM didn't go back on the promises he made, well he did try downplay it just prior to launch but way to little and way to late.

What a fuss...why should I ever care what a dev says about the game, what counts is what *I* as a player have to say about the game...And again you must have a 'crystal sphere' to read in the mind of SM, explain me the magic some day...

I'd like not to be BSed and waste my money on a product that doesn't deliver what has been promised on release. Simple.

Sorry guy, but you go very off-topic and I have to correct you. Maybe you think my post is sort of a promo? Then you are wrong, it's just an info that fits this thread category. Your opinion is welcome, but don't get personal please

So far it's all related to No Man's Sky and Sean Murray. No Off topic there.
My apologies if it sounded to personal because I'm not trying to, however I did have a hard time figuring out how you came to the conclussion of the lesson you draw out of it regarding being a good businessman, good entrepeneur and a marketing expert because if you didn't know the Videogame industry took lesson out of No Man's Sky to avoid making the same marketing missteps Sean Murray and Hello Games did.

Yes that's true. But I think (I don't know for sure of course, that's why I'm not calling SM a lier!), I think that Sean was convinced to release this kind of build but then realized (maybe on behalf Sony Corp.) that things had to be put out to meet the stringent release date. It's very hard for Sean who maybe had not the necessay public relation 'feeling' to tell all the story about it. The future sales would have suffered a lot, and again: there was still Sony Corp...

Don't make promises you can't keep. Besides Sony only supply some help with publishing and promotion the rest was all Hello Games.

No, sorry, I don't see hard evidence for a lie. But instead, I agree with you all that all the matter the game was released is a very sorry one.
But even those who were deceived by the release get to update FREE to a more than acceptabel state. So why all this fuss? Just move ahead and play the game if you have it, and consider its actual state (called "Next" update, see my first post) if you think to buy it.

So you didn't see him making false promises, you didn't see him showing off a different game and you didn't see people who got the game at release missing many features promised by Sean Murray?

As for ''He fixed it later'' Yeah cool..that's like me going to buy a car getting promised a tons of options when I buy it but when I pick up the car none of the options promised are there but I get them installed 2 years later. Yeah thanks but that's still getting shafted by the salesman.

Anyway, that you're happy with the game as it's now hey cool beans you enjoy it you got what you wanted so that's what matters. But you can imagine that many people where very dissapointed when the game was released it wasn't what had been promised and you can count on it that that isn't easily forgotten and forgiven. I didn't buy No Man's Sky, guess my earlier experience with dissapointing releases taught me some valuable lessons but no one could miss the noise it made when it was released.

[XenonSurf]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Game footage of a different build was shown all the way until the release of the game. At no point was it conveyed to the consumer that what they're seeing/hearing is not what they're getting.

Yes that's true. But I think (I don't know for sure of course, that's why I'm not calling SM a lier!), I think that Sean was convinced to release this kind of build but then realized (maybe on behalf Sony Corp.) that things had to be put out to meet the stringent release date. It's very hard for Sean who maybe had not the necessay public relation 'feeling' to tell all the story about it. The future sales would have suffered a lot, and again: there was still Sony Corp...


No, sorry, I don't see hard evidence for a lie. But instead, I agree with you all that all the matter the game was released is a very sorry one.
But even those who were deceived by the release get to update FREE to a more than acceptabel state. So why all this fuss? Just move ahead and play the game if you have it, and consider its actual state (called "Next" update, see my first post) if you think to buy it.

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Oh man, what a road to go in this thread...
Hopefully we can now move to some playing features...or PLAYER opinions..
And btw, Empyrion better than NMS ??
Empyrion is still in the beta state at best, or has it changed? And if I look at its grafics, then sorry, if I ever find them better than those in NMS I would have to buy my 4th pair of glasses

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

And btw, Empyrion better than NMS ??
Empyrion is still in the beta state at best, or has it changed? And if I look at its grafics, then sorry, if I ever find them better than those in NMS I would have to buy my 4th pair of glasses

I do not know Empyrion, just know what they write and what feedback players gave, and many say its the better NMS. Thats why I asked.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Yes that's true. But I think (I don't know for sure of course, that's why I'm not calling SM a lier!), I think that Sean was convinced to release this kind of build but then realized (maybe on behalf Sony Corp.) that things had to be put out to meet the stringent release date. It's very hard for Sean who maybe had not the necessay public relation 'feeling' to tell all the story about it. The future sales would have suffered a lot, and again: there was still Sony Corp...

So, if I understood correctly, you are saying that Sean Murray wanted to release the build he was showing off everywhere, but due to time they had to release a stripped down build?
And after the decision was made to release the stripped down build, Sean Murray still kept showing off the "better" build and at no point told the consumers that's not the build they are going to get at launch? Again, what would you call that if not lying?

Also, you don't just change builds so late in development. It takes a ton of testing and re-testing to make sure everything in the stripped down build functions not to mention physical copies (not sure if NMS sold those) that need to be shipped off to retailers.

So, if what I understood you are saying *might* have happened, there still would have been plenty of time for Sean Murray to tell people what they were getting. It doesn't matter that it might've affected sales, the point still is that he never told the consumers at what condition the game is going to be released.

Lastly, as HunterICX said, if you're having fun playing it, good for you. I'm not here to tell you what to play, I rather want to remind people who might be thinking of buiyng this polished ball of turd about the company's history.

[XenonSurf]

But we can find a lot of youtube videos of 1-2 years ago where Sean - contrary to the few anwer extracts in Angry Joe''s vid - clearly saying that certain features would NOT be in the game. In one of such videos he said that NMS was not the kind of game for Multiplayer (not just online features which are not considered MT), MT didn't make any sense for him in NMS.

MT has been added now due to the player's pressure. Why would a lier listen to people if he can have it easy by doing nothing like so many other developers?

One year ago I did a lot of replies like this on Steam forum of the game which was infected with such themes (instead of focusing on real game shortcommings) and I did provide a lot of video links that denies the myth of hiding to the players what would be in the game. And I surely won't repeat it here just to convince you.

Things have been taken out of the game prior of release, and there were different builds showing in the trailers, all that's true, we can all be obset about it yes, but really... do we ever make such a discussion for other major game titles where this constantly happens almost in total silence? No, I have never heard this kind of negative hype like the one for NMS.



Just to take an example of a 'real' major fan-arsing that didn't make any waves where it should:

Why weren't there such critics when Paramount Pictures only published ripped DVD versions of all the Star Trek series, cutting away 1/4 of real story content just to accomodate advertisement TV time? I can understand it when running on TV, but for a DVD? Why didn't they publish the ones with the original time lenght of 1 hour (insteaad they published the ripped 45 minutes series) ? That's just plain fan-arsing.
Fact is I hear no one lamenting about that...although, at least for me, this is a *real* big reason to get obset as a Star Trek fan...

With Sean Murray leading a small group of devs we are making a big case instead...so I cannot take your arguments seriously, if you don't like a deo you throw it away, you don't make a hype...

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Things have been taken out of the game prior of release, and there were different builds showing in the trailers, all that's true, we can all be obset about it yes, but really... do we ever make such a discussion for other major game titles where this constantly happens almost in total silence? No, I have never heard this kind of negative hype like the one for NMS.

Aliens: Colonial Marines got the same treatment, so I return the question: If ACM got bashed for its misleading marketing, why should No Man's Sky get a pass?



I shall leave this here as well, a good overview of what happened prior and after the release:




EDIT: Something I was not aware of until I just checked: the game is still, two years after release, sold at a full price of 55€.

[XenonSurf]

Here is a video with another perspective. SM doesn't give many interviews, especially after all this hype about his person. The video below respects that giving the main statements of SM in a text form instead of the full voiceover,

One must recall that Hello Games is a small team of developers and doesn't have the big personel you sea in EA or elsewhere. That makes this NMS game performance bigger than ever IMO.
And for the last time: I don't care, and I don't believe that Sean did lie about the game before or after its release. He had a bad start but he has seriously worked on the game over the past 2 years where other bigger companies would fail miserably and just abandon such a project. It's because Sean Murray and his team have the force to go their own way - whatever people want or want not to see in the game - and:



They deliver. Wether it pleases the critics or not doesn't matter.

[Skybird]

I got the game recently, with all its DLCs released so far, in a smile price pack.
And I play it in VR.

I like it. Its huge, it has its moments, and in VR is really nice to get involved. It seems also that reviews have fundamentally changed and now recognise that the developer has spent the past years indeed to give massive support to what seemed to have been a dud at release. But that was 2016, now is 2020. I know from Raceroom how far games can change over the years, Raceroom was a desaster at start in 2012, today is one of the absolutely best race sim packages on the market. So a dud can rise like phoenix from the ashes - and NMS has.

It reminds me often of Subnautica, I mean the visual style and the tasks you are doing, just the claustrophobia and intense atmosphere is missing, while it offers the WAYYYYYY bigger playground. There are weak details, for exmaple that capital ships do not engage in space battles (so far?). Anyhow, for the asking price now, what you get in the complete package today is worth to be recommended for that money. Its not perfect, but it is solid, and in VR quite good. Me at least does not complain.


I compare it to Elite in VR, and can just usum it up0 ba saying that I simpyl did not ge tinto Elite. They game just did not pick me up where I was. X Rebirth I played a lot ion 2D, and liked it, soem thigns it does better than NMS, others worse. The new X game (in VR) I tried twice (with one year between both attempts) and refunded twice, they did not even care to get the player hooked by giving it a steering setup method that worked, I already got scared away by just trying to configure the virtual controlling (and failed twice, the axis callibration just did not work).



Bury the rough start of NMS, its over four years ago. What it is now, is respectable.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Bury the rough start of NMS, its over four years ago. What it is now, is respectable.

Yeah, no. Sean Murray lied all the way up until the release, there was a review embargo so people would not know the state of the game. What they've done 4 years on is completely irrelevant.


This is the kind of BS why game companies keep getting away with the sh!t the do. People going "Well, it's ok now, I enjoy it". That's great, but don't come crying when you get burned next time, because it's you who enables this sh!t. (not talking about you Sky specifically, just in general)

[Platapus]

I , for one, am becoming tired of being a non-consensual beta tester for video games, and especially paying them to beta test their games. If they want me to beta test a game, I will be more than happy to do so if


1. They provide me the game for free
2. They specifically tell me that I am to beta test it.


I have tested software and I kinda enjoy that sort of stuff.



But I am not happy paying full retail cost for a game that is advertised as being complete only to find out that it is not.



And I am not talking about $10.00 indie games. These games are in the $60.00 + range for a digital only copy!



It seems that the game designers are not even trying to put out a full version of their games at release. It seems that too many of them are releasing with the exception that it is incomplete and that it will need to be patched.



I stopped buying games when they first come out. I have plenty of complete video games to occupy my time.



I will patiently wait for other consumers to pay for the "honor" of beta testing games.



I have been burned too many times.



This "oh well, we will patch it later" attitude has to stop and the only power I have is the power of my wallet. I am but one person and I don't think any video game developer cares about me.



But if we, as a community, reward undesirable behavior, nothing will change.