US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Ah, I see...

However, I did not say you "did" say those words; I said you "would" say as in an extrapolation, not a quotation;

Hmm. Well that is the part that I don't understand. Why would I say or even think that? My statement was pretty clear. My intent was pretty clear.

..also, I am at fault for not being clearer; the intent would have been clearer if I had used the generic "one" instead of "you",

I think the intent would have been crystal clear if instead of using "you" or "one" you had used "I" as in I, Vienna. It's your extrapolation not mine.

Anyway, I'm happy.

I'll just leave this little bit behind...

Ok. We or at least I get it. You hate Trump. I'm not that sharp so it took me a while to put it all together but I get it.

That being said, I would ask one question. Would you be happier if Hillary Clinton was sitting in the Oval Office?

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

Ok. We or at least I get it. You hate Trump. I'm not that sharp so it took me a while to put it all together but I get it.

That being said, I would ask one question. Would you be happier if Hillary Clinton was sitting in the Oval Office?

Most likely not, particularly since I didn't vote for either of them, but, then again, the Presidency wouldn't be the foundering shipwreck it currently is...


To be clear: I don't actually hate Trump. I said so long ago in an earlier post: I just didn't really care about him at all before he was president. He was just another "celebrity" most "famous" for just being "famous", rather like the Kardashians, and some of the other gossip fodder one sees and hears about on the periphery of real news of real import. When Trump is out of office, I'll go back to generally ignoring him as I did before. Trump has no real value other than to himself and those who follow all that pop culture blah-blah. As long as he is in the Oval Office and making a farce of our government and causing very real harm to the country and it's conduct, well, then, I do reserve the right to point out his many, many failings and corruptions. I do not suffer fools lightly...


And the previous sentence should give you a hint about how I would feel about Hillary in the White House...













<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Most likely not, particularly since I didn't vote for either of them, but, then again, the Presidency wouldn't be the foundering shipwreck it currently is...

I guess that is where we would disagree. Trump says some dumb things , he stretches the truth, he lies, and sometimes he is out of his league. But I don't believe for a minute that he is this monster that Pravda, oops I mean CNN/MSNBC/NYT/WP makes him out to be. For me Trump needs to cross a certain line to be that monster. Trump has yet to weaponize the IRS, the FBI and the DOJ to surveil and attack his political opponents. So far he only uses Twitter. I'm OK with that.

As for Clinton. Well here's a person who was extremely careless with top secret information for a personal gain. She had that private server for only one reason. Pay to play and the Clinton Foundation. The missing 30,000 emails would tell that story. The question is, would that behavior have continued at the White House? I'm going to say yes and probably ramped up. After all .... she'd be the President. She'd have Comey, Brennen, Clapper etc. to watch her back. It would be corruption on steroids.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

I guess that is where we would disagree. Trump says some dumb things , he stretches the truth, he lies, and sometimes he is out of his league. But I don't believe for a minute that he is this monster that Pravda, oops I mean CNN/MSNBC/NYT/WP makes him out to be. For me Trump needs to cross a certain line to be that monster. Trump has yet to weaponize the IRS, the FBI and the DOJ to surveil and attack his political opponents. So far he only uses Twitter. I'm OK with that.

As for Clinton. Well here's a person who was extremely careless with top secret information for a personal gain. She had that private server for only one reason. Pay to play and the Clinton Foundation. The missing 30,000 emails would tell that story. The question is, would that behavior have continued at the White House? I'm going to say yes and probably ramped up. After all .... she'd be the President. She'd have Comey, Brennen, Clapper etc. to watch her back. It would be corruption on steroids.

I do happen to think gross incompetency does cross a serious line, particularly when it impacts an entire nation and its system of government. Maybe I've just gotten used to having someone in the Oval Office who has at least the basic knowledge of how the nation operates; maybe I've gotten use to being led by persons who have more than a tenuous grasp of reality; maybe I've gotten used to being led by persons who do not cause unnecessary problems because they don't have a clue; maybe I don't like the idea of a preening, buffoonish idiot, being the face of our nation...


Maybe I think we deserve better...


But, hey, maybe that's just me...


One item in your response has touched on something the Trumpers have gotten up on their hind legs and howled and whined about for a long time, how Hillary was foolish and careless as Secretary of State with her emails, etc. Somehow, I never hear their anguished cries over the fact Trump has eschewed using high encryption and protected cellphones to conduct official business, some of which is highly sensitive; Trump has been advised by the intelligence agencies and other members of his own staff about not using an unprotected cellphone, but, as he has with other commonsense advice, he has ignored them and continues to use his vanilla cellphone, not exactly an action to be considered as careful and secure; even Obama, who preferred to use a favorite Blackberry model of cell phone had his phone modified to meet security needs and standards...


Who knows, maybe Trump is worried Putin will have a more difficult time keep tabs on him...



EDIT:


Unkess I'm mistaken, the long mentioned 30,000 emails, have, in fact, been accounted for; I seem to recall some news accounts of how the 'missing' emails were either found on other servers or their contents were found as part of responses to those emails...











<O>

[MaDef]

Trump has eschewed using high encryption and protected cellphones to conduct official business, some of which is highly sensitive; Trump has been advised by the intelligence agencies and other members of his own staff about not using an unprotected cellphone, but, as he has with other commonsense advice, he has ignored them and continues to use his vanilla cellphone, not exactly an action to be considered as careful and secure; even Obama, who preferred to use a favorite Blackberry model of cell phone had his phone modified to meet security needs and standards...

That's a disingenuous assertion don't you think?

The president has accepted every device and process related to mobile phones recommended by White House Information Technology,” the official said

[Skybird]

https://www.businessinsider.de/china...18-6?r=UK&IR=T

"How much value does a country or a company add to the process is what counts," Shvets writes. "But our current trade statistics do not reflect value but rather flows."
Deutsche Bank economists Zhiwei Zhang and Yi Xiong came to a similar conclusion earlier this year, writing in a note to clients that the US-China trade balance is "clearly misleading." They pointed out that it doesn't account for hundreds of billions of dollars in sales made by US companies run abroad, also known as subsidiaries.
US subsidiaries sold $223 billion goods and services in China in 2017, according to a Bureau of Economic Analysis survey. Those weren't counted toward the US's goods and services trade deficit with China, which was a record $375 billion last year.
And a lapse in data can also be seen at the company level, Zhang and Xiong said. Apple generated $48 billion in revenue from China in 2016, mostly from iPhone sales. But, according to trade data, China imported only $1 million of cell phones from the US that year.
"From an international trade perspective, iPhone sold by Apple's Chinese subsidiaries are not counted as imports," Zhang and Xiong wrote. "But from an economic and financial perspective, iPhone is a US product, and the US benefits the most from it."

In a German article I just read about this, they explained that the real surplus may be just one tenth of the number claimed by Trump.


In a similiar fashion the Us tzries to make Europe beleive that the EU has a big surplus in exports into the US. Truth is that many branches of for the uS high relevancen namely IT services and non-product/non-material services in general are being excluded form the math of Trump, and that if these would get factored in, the export surplus still would be a surplus - but it would be turning into an American one.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

I do happen to think gross incompetency does cross a serious line, particularly when it impacts an entire nation and its system of government.

Hmmm.... It would seem that if that statement were true the US government would have collapsed, the economy would be in ruins and the zombie apocalypse would be well under way. Did I miss something?

As I have said I don't like Trump's style. But some of his policies I agree with.

Nixing the Iran deal and Paris Climate deal get A+ marks. So does the reduction in corporate tax and deregulation. There are lot's of others. Despite all the naysayers the world did not end. No nuclear war, the stock market did not crash and Nancy Pelosis' 'Armageddon' has yet to occur. If you watch or read the Pravda shills you would expect that the end is coming any day now.

Here's the thing that I have learned about politicians. Don't judge them by how they dress, who the hang out with or even what they say. The most important thing for me is what they accomplish and whether they do things that are illegal or unconstitutional. His predecessor claims, with a straight face, that he had a scandal free administration. If Trump does the illegal and unconstitutional things that Obama did, if he has people in the highest appointed positions who have lied and done illegal things then I would be the first in line to condemn him.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

Hmmm.... It would seem that if that statement were true the US government would have collapsed, the economy would be in ruins and the zombie apocalypse would be well under way. Did I miss something?

It does not collapse so quickly, the president is not almighty. He has signed a lot of decretes that will not immediately show their impact.

Nixing the Iran deal and Paris Climate deal get A+ marks.

By whom? From you? Unfortunately for you and other Trump lovers it is not the opinion of the rest of the world. I agree that China or North Korea give a rat's ass for the world climate, human rights or torturing for that matter, i just thought the US would be more intelligent, and Canada? Well there must be a reason almost all laugh at you.

So does the reduction in corporate tax and deregulation.

Ah, so you think that companies paying less taxes will push the economy and eventually trickle down. Where did i hear this before..

[...] If Trump does the illegal and unconstitutional things that Obama did, if he has people in the highest appointed positions who have lied and done illegal things then I would be the first in line to condemn him.

I guess it is still not enough for you eh?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by vienna

BTW, Trump personally claims far more than US $3.1BN, but has, as usual, nothing to back up his claim; in fact, there is wide spread suspicion Trump's 'fortune' may be at most half of the 2018 net worth and does not take into account his very high debt burden...


<O>

For someone with widespread suspicion with little to back it up, you sure know an awful lot.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

It does not collapse so quickly, the president is not almighty. He has signed a lot of decretes that will not immediately show their impact.

Really.

The U.S. economic outlook is healthy according to the key economic indicators. The most critical indicator is the gross domestic product, which measures the nation's production output. The GDP growth rate is expected to remain between the 2 percent to 3 percent ideal range. Unemployment is forecast to continue at the natural rate. There isn't too much inflation or deflation. That's a Goldilocks economy.

All in all, an excellent time to reduce debt, build up your savings, and increase your wealth.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-economic-outlook-3305669

By whom? From you? Unfortunately for you and other Trump lovers it is not the opinion of the rest of the world. I agree that China or North Korea give a rat's ass for the world climate, human rights or torturing for that matter, i just thought the US would be more intelligent, and Canada? Well there must be a reason almost all laugh at you.

Both of these deals would have cost a lot of money. The Iran deal was flawed. Both deals were done without congressional approval. Barak Obama was not elected king or dictator. That is the reason that Trump was right to get out of both.

I guess it is still not enough for you eh?

Not sure what that means. can you explain?

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by u crank

Here's the thing that I have learned about politicians. Don't judge them by how they dress, who the hang out with or even what they say. The most important thing for me is what they accomplish and whether they do things that are illegal or unconstitutional. His predecessor claims, with a straight face, that he had a scandal free administration.

I like that, plus the one thing I've learned about politicians is that if you wait long enough they come and go.

I was worried about Obama's last six (6) months in office when the Lord comforted me with these words, "I was still God when Nixon was president"

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.businessinsider.de/china...18-6?r=UK&IR=T





In a German article I just read about this, they explained that the real surplus may be just one tenth of the number claimed by Trump.


In a similiar fashion the Us tzries to make Europe beleive that the EU has a big surplus in exports into the US. Truth is that many branches of for the uS high relevancen namely IT services and non-product/non-material services in general are being excluded form the math of Trump, and that if these would get factored in, the export surplus still would be a surplus - but it would be turning into an American one.

Skybird, does not matter, you know it's all fake news like all facts, science and so forth which Trump does not like....I just wait for the tweet claiming that earth is a disc^^

[vienna]

Originally Posted by MaDef

That's a disingenuous assertion don't you think?

No more so than using a quote from August's favorite source the ubiquitous "unnamed official" and an official from within Trump's own circle, at that. I had to look up the source of your quote, since you didn't provide one; the quote dates back to circa May 22-23, 2018; since then, there have been various reports citing Trump's continued use of unsecured, personal cell phones to conduct official Government business, including one instance that not only caught his own staff by surprise, it also was in contravention of Federal Law covering Federal records:


Aides caught unaware of Trump’s personal phone call to Trudeau: report --

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...trudeau-report

White House aides, according to a senior U.S. official who spoke to the Post, were totally unaware that the call had even occurred.

“We had no idea what happened,” the official said.

The White House would later put out a short readout of the call based on Trump's memory between the two leaders, according to the Post.

...


A much lengthier Canadian readout from the call stated that the pair discussed dairy trade between the two nations, which Canada said “heavily favors the U.S.”

...

White House aides urged Trump to route future calls with world leaders through the White House Situation Room, as required by federal records law, according to the Post, and there are no other confirmed calls between Trump and world leaders on his personal cellphone.

So, aside from being a possible, if not actual, breach of national security, Trump is also in violation of Federal records law. And, I don't know about you, but I am not comfortable in the fact matters of national affairs are left to be documented by dependence on the dodgy memory of a 72 year old of questionable mental stability and veracity...









<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by vienna

there have been various reports citing Trump's continued use of unsecured, personal cell phones to conduct official Government business, including one instance that not only caught his own staff by surprise, it also was in contravention of Federal Law covering Federal records:

Aides caught unaware of Trump’s personal phone call to Trudeau: report --

So, aside from being a possible, if not actual, breach of national security, Trump is also in violation of Federal records law. And, I don't know about you, but I am not comfortable in the fact matters of national affairs are left to be documented by dependence on the dodgy memory of a 72 year old of questionable mental stability and veracity...
<O>

You should bring this before the MSNBC/CNN investigators ASAP due to they are looking for something to catch President Trump on anyway. They are tired of investigating the Hillary private stuff for sure

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by u crank

Hmmm.... It would seem that if that statement were true the US government would have collapsed, the economy would be in ruins and the zombie apocalypse would be well under way. Did I miss something?

Hell, that didn't even happen under Jimmy Carter.