Facebook: Aren't they supposed to be smart guys?

[Onkel Neal]

If they are smart, how do they make so many mistakes and misteps?

Each time, Facebook built tools with rosy expectations, only to negligently leave the safety off and see worst-case scenarios arise. In October, Zuckerberg already asked for forgiveness, but the public wants change.

Maybe FB is smart, just disingenuine, unethical, and clever at hiding it.... I always suspected their data collection was their main cash cow, not simple advertising. Let's face it, FB is not going to willingly give up that power, and they are not going to advertise that it's what is powering their balance sheet. So, what happens if they are regulated and can no longer rely on this revenue source?

I wonder, will FB eventually become like Geocities and AOL? They were hot as stink in their time, but eventually became stale and people abandoned them. I've seen all the young people have already dropped FB. How long before there's a mass exodus to avoid being the last one on something "uncool"?

[Catfish]

Well it all came from Zuckerberg's internet platform where people could place photos from girls on the net and discuss and insult them publicly, for their looks. Then he stole the ideas from those two other guys and combined it all to 'Facebook'. I can find nothing "ethical" (lmao) in that and selling private data.
And while it is nice and easy to find certain people again from older times, and exchanging eMail-addresses, Facebook's purpose has by then ended for me.

I admit i never understood the structure of Facebook; when it comes to posts, it is all a messed up. Sorted by date, and all cluttered regardless of person or theme; impossible to find certain older posts as well.

Regarding collecting and selling data and metadata, Facebook is an amateur compared to Google or Amazon. Bezos should have disregarded his advisors, and called Amazon "Relentless" (what it is), as he initially wanted.
b.t.w. www.relentless.com still takes you to "Amazon"


Regarding Facebook and "Cambridge Analytica".. we have seen where it leads. I was astonished though how voting could be influenced in such a massive way.
But this is not "abusing" Facebook, it is about using it. It is all in there, it just has to be exploited. For money and political power. Facebook and ethics, really..

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

If they are smart, how do they make so many mistakes and misteps?



Maybe FB is smart, just disingenuine, unethical, and clever at hiding it.... I always suspected their data collection was their main cash cow, not simple advertising.

Yes. Its the core and fundament of the whole business model. Take it away, and the whole "business" dies immediately.

Im preaching this since years. There ain'T no such things as "free" internet services. When it is labelled as "free", it means: you pay with your profile, your HD's data, your privacy, no matter your consent given or not.

We do not want intel agencies and government to ever know this lot of stuff about us, but we allow it to happen when it is done by a private business actor with tough profit interests and a strong will to form a monopoly and bypass the laws and standards of civil society?

One of the few things for which I will to leave states in office anymore, is that they go tough against monopolists. Monpoly and free market economy do not go together.

Stock markets say that FB should be worth half a trillion. This tells me not the value of facebook. It tells me how derranged the value assessment of the stockmarkets has become in the wake of the profanization of real, good money. Exactly like the Austrians have predicted it already a hundred years ago. Destroy money, and you loose your only standard by which you can compare services and goods on the market objectively. Massive and ever growing distortions necessarily and unavoidably must be the logical consequence.

Well, I know why I do not use any of these new "social" media and communication platforms. None. And it costs me no effort and no self-restraint at all, I miss nothing.

[Platapus]

When the product is free, the customer becomes the commodity that is sold.

[HW3]

Facebook has been collecting and selling user data to whoever they wanted for years. They are just mad that Cambridge Analytica found a way to get it for free, and sold it to the Republican's, which really pissed off Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg had been selling it to the Democrat's for years.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Platapus

When the product is free, the customer becomes the commodity that is sold.

Agreed.

But I know people who would say that is rubbish as there are privacy settings.

[Skybird]

There ain't no such thing as "privacy settings". Thats just code to give oyu a message on a screen, nothing more. The privacy gets raped at the very profound level of the operation system Windows/Chrome OS/Android already. Its in principle deception and dummy switches. There is zero altenmrtaive to pulling the plug and physically interrupting the wire, if you really want to try defending your privacy. PHYSICAL is the word to watch out for. Only naive people trust in software settings.

I do not trust even the Oculus software suite already. You can prevent Oculus Home from automatically launchzing (by only allowing the Adminstrator to launch the exe), and youj can pull all plugs of the headset andf the cameras - but then you still see that on booting, Oculus processes get launched automaticalöly nevertheless. Why? What for? You then can use a separate 3rd party tool to switch them off, and make two of three such processes disappear from the list of active tasks, yes - but again the question: why is Facebook so eager to have its software (Oculus is owned by Facebook) running, to have any attached hardware with cameras and microphone, adressable automatically without the user being able to prevent this by normal, ordinary ways? Task monitor shows that their is data tranbsmitted even if the headset is not being used, and has been switched off separately. Wowh, I say. I had emailed them once, earlier this year, and asked why Oculus software remains active evenm if I try to shut it down. They said the software sguts downb, only a tiny piec eof code remains present in memory. They did not explain why this must be so. I then asked them what part of my question exactly gave them problems to understand. they said that theior customers are very satisfied with their services and that the dspoftware allows me full degree of freedom of control. I finally send a third mail, asking whether there is a problem with my use of English language. They did not reply.

I now could ask myself whether I would want to trust their precious words. I skip that step. Only a fool would take their words for real. They - Oculus - are Facebook. Thats all one needs to know.

We have a proverb in German: Trust is nice. Control is better. I will never trust companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook and the likes. Their countless offences are too countless indeed as if they could not be intentional and systematical.

And then there is the data people give carelessly away voluntarily. Well, that cannot be helped as long as they do not feel the pain from getting bitten. From a therapeutical and social-philosophical point of view I wish that many, many people get hit by disaster so that the lesson to be learned sinks deep into the collective memory.

[mapuc]

So those pages I trust like Facecrooks and some Danish pages about the same are not trustworthy ?

Because they have said these settings are to be trusted.

If you so to say - say no to Companies tracking you then these companies can't track you.

FB, on the other hand, is tracking you-EVEN if you don't have an account. You only need to visit pages that have a directly connection to FB.(this is what I have been told by some IT-security people in the news some years ago)

I don't know how the laws goes in USA, England or Germany. I do know if these private settings is humbug, then FB would get in trouble here in Denmark.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

So those pages I trust like Facecrooks and some Danish pages about the same are not trustworthy ?

Because they have said these settings are to be trusted.

And I say I have a green skin, three eyes, and an antenna on my forehead. Trust me, I do not tell you nonsense!

FB, on the other hand, is tracking you-EVEN if you don't have an account. You only need to visit pages that have a directly connection to FB.(this is what I have been told by some IT-security people in the news some years ago)

And by me! Its true, at least it was true when I rea dabout it, maybe four and five and six years ago. And Chrome OS and browser indeed started with plenty of dummy switches and was ranked as so fraudulent and dangerous that the German office for IT security rated all the early incarnations of Chrome OS as malware and recommended the Germans to not use it.

When I check the settings tabs on my smartphone for the Chrome browser in it (which is not Chrome OS obviously, but still) I see that privacy relevant deletion options and setting sare scatterted all xcross the place. They make it as complicated as possible to easiyl delete cookies and to delete user history data and such.

Same with Windows 10, plus Microsoft's customer-oriented new habit of constantly chnaging its terminology to confuse people and make them agree to settings that do not work for but against them - but work so nice for Microsoft.

When someobdy sets up traps and more traps to get me caught, he does not become a friend of mine just because in principle I am free to work my way around these traps. He remains to be my enemy even if I can avoid all of his traps. Which is unlikely that I can.

Getting intentionally misled by somebody, is not nice. I take it personal, I take a mental note of it, and I do not forgive nor forget it. When I get cheated intentionally, I have an elephant's memory.

[mapuc]

First I made search in English, couldn't find any related pages about this Facebook track you even if you haven't an FB-account

Then I made a search in Danish and it didn't take long before I found the first page

It is a news paper Politiken(the Politiks) who had this article posted 3 years ago (3/31-2015)

Here is what it says

(Have used google translate)

Facebook even tracks users without a facebook account

Belgian research reveals that Facebook tracks everyone and breaks the EU Personal Data Act.


Facebook tracks all network traffic from users who visit one of Facebook's websites, even if the user does not have a Facebook account and / or has declined tracing in EU countries.

It was revealed the Belgian data authorities in connection with extensive research, several foreign media writes.

The research was conducted after it appeared in a preliminary report that Facebook's privacy policy is in violation of European law

The article was long,
But it seems to be page that have this "Like" button that FB use to track people by planting cookies on their computers.

Here are the article (Danish)
https://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/di...facebook-konto

Markus

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

There ain't no such thing as "privacy settings". Thats just code to give oyu a message on a screen, nothing more. The privacy gets raped at the very profound level of the operation system Windows/Chrome OS/Android already. Its in principle deception and dummy switches. There is zero altenmrtaive to pulling the plug and physically interrupting the wire, if you really want to try defending your privacy. PHYSICAL is the word to watch out for. Only naive people trust in software settings.

Plenty of people out there would say you are talking rubbish as there are laws to safeguard our privacy.

As for me my view is this...privacy is like ice cream so easily melted.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by STEED

Plenty of people out there would say you are talking rubbish as there are laws to safeguard our privacy. [...]

Aren't you sure this belongs in the joke thread?

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Aren't you sure this belongs in the joke thread?

I know the law is a joke but there are those who think we are protected.

Kids today are taught trust technology and hide nothing.

[mapuc]

I have an Facebook account and the first thing i did was to either remover or block stuff in my private settings

The only thing FB knows about me is my name, my mail address and my phone number and my age of course.

They do not know exactly where in Denmark I live(it happens I get a weather message from a town far away from where I live)Which I also can in my setting-Where I'm logged in from.

I have even blocked the apps I'm using to track me and much more.

I do not trust FB a tiny millimeter Only reason to why I have FB is due to my old friends who rather wanted to be on FB then on a Danish forum like this one.

My daily visit to FB is lower then my visit to this forum. I have more time on this forum then I have on FB.

Markus

[Skybird]

Laws protect nothing and nobody. The factors defining circumstances do - or do not, it depends on these factors. Words mean nothing. Deeds count.

"Everything before the word 'but' is horsesh!t."

The law is being mocked, bend, raped and bought today every day, every hour, every moment. Its called politics.