Expelled student armed with assault rifle slaughters 17 at Florida high school

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Looking at the reply's here, Catfish makes some good points. Maybe it's time to see how Germany, the U.K and others deal with things to keep their kids safe.

The UK has some of the world's strictest gun-ownership laws and it is now rare for civilians to own private firearms.
The turning point for the country came in 1996, when 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton used legally owned handguns to kill 16 children, all ages 5 and 6, as well as a teacher, before taking his own life.
The massacre in Dunblane, Scotland, prompted widespread outrage and a surge in public support to ban handguns.

[Mr Quatro]

Guns will get the blame here instead of mental illness

especially guns that don't need be reloaded after every shot ... just a hand gun with extra clips would've had the same causalities, but in this case it was an assault style rifle.

If he had of run down a crowd of people with a truck or a car they wouldn't outlaw trucks and cars.

It's mental illness and I hate to blame the movies and video games, but where else do these young people get their evil desires to kill, murder and maim the people they hate?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

It's mental illness and I hate to blame the movies and video games, but where else do these young people get their evil desires to kill, murder and maim the people they hate?

There's one huge flaw in blaming video games and movies: You don't see these types of killings take place regularly elsewhere in the world.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The UK has some of the world's strictest gun-ownership laws and it is now rare for civilians to own private firearms.
The turning point for the country came in 1996, when 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton used legally owned handguns to kill 16 children, all ages 5 and 6, as well as a teacher, before taking his own life.
The massacre in Dunblane, Scotland, prompted widespread outrage and a surge in public support to ban handguns.

I had not heard of this and reading about the Dunblane incident just made me sick. Too bad the individual who committed these acts didn't just take his own life and end it there. That's as bad as the shooting at the Sandy Hook elementary school where the victims were as young as 5. I have been a proponent of armed citizenry. The individuals i know who are armed are sensible, law abiding individuals. It's clear however that we need to address the situation and do things differently.

One thing is clear. School's need to be more secure where visits are by appointment only and then only with a proper escort. Expanding on what Mr. Quatro had said, why are assault weapons needed and sold in the marketplace anyhow ? I have long believed violent video games influence these shootings as well. Well balanced individuals are able to differentiate between reality and video games but i believe that violent video games are a strong influence on mentally handicapped people.

If people need to express their aggressive nature or tendencies, they can pick up a copy of Silent Hunter, Cold water and the like and just have at it. Our members are pretty well balanced and very intelligent and our simulations haven't made us crazy or homicidal .

[Mr Quatro]

Nikolas Cruz was the 19 year old shooter: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3822163

FBI agents were warned about Nikolas Cruz’s plans to become a “professional school shooter” months ago, according to a YouTube vlogger who noticed a sick comment on one of his videos.

Ben Bennight, a bail bondsman in Mississippi who goes by the name Ben the Bondsman, said that he received a terrifying comment from a user called Nikolas Cruz under a video in September.

“This comment said ‘I’m going to be a professional school shooter” and I knew that I couldn’t just ignore that,” he said.

Bennight said that he flagged the comment to YouTube and also sent a screenshot to the FBI, who visited him briefly in September and asked him whether he knew the poster.

Mental illness

[Catfish]

@Jim 'Prolet' (from proletarian) is a short derogative term for a worker, or a person considered to be poor, or behaving inappropriate. In modern times, it is used to establish a border between you and those you think of as inferior

@Sky: i agree that common sense and behaviour has suffered, however i blame the bullies and good german right wing mobs, with immigrants adjusting. Not here in Hannover though.

@Mr Quatro: I strongly disagree. This is no case of mental illness, but one of fury, a quick temper and egoism. All those traits can well be found in entrepreneurs and big business bosses. Common sense and reason is not what gets you far. Neither here, nor in the US.

I guess i p'd of enough people right now, and rest my case.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Jim 'Prolet' (from proletarian) is a short derogative term for a worker, or a person considered to be poor, or behaving inappropriate. In modern times, it is used to establish a border between you and those you think of as inferior

@Sky: i agree that common sense and behaviour has suffered, however i blame the bullies and good german right wing mobs, with immigrants adjusting. Not here in Hannover though.

@Mr Quatro: I strongly disagree. This is no case of mental illness, but one of fury, a quick temper and egoism. All those traits can well be found in entrepreneurs and big business bosses. Common sense and reason is not what gets you far. Neither here, nor in the US.

I guess i p'd of enough people right now, and rest my case.

You hardly upset anyone Catfish. The thread was established to encourage an intelligent and lucid discussion such as the one you are having with us right now.

[Catfish]

^ Why, thank you

One more thing to consider. I was more or less an even or level-headed guy back then when i was young. But i remember to have had unforgiving furious moments due to real or imagined perceived degradations. If i had had access to weapons like a gun at that time or in the heat of the moment, i really do not know what would have happened.

When i served in the military, we had our own ways to deal with impertinent superiors. Thank god weapons were not involved.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ Why, thank you
When i served in the military, we had our own ways to deal with impertinent superiors. Thank god weapons were not involved.

Did it have anything to do with what you wipe your butt with

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Jim 'Prolet' (from proletarian) is a short derogative term for a worker, or a person considered to be poor, or behaving inappropriate. In modern times, it is used to establish a border between you and those you think of as inferior

Ah, okay, cheers.

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

You hardly upset anyone Catfish. The thread was established to encourage an intelligent and lucid discussion such as the one you are having with us right now.

Agreed

[August]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Expanding on what Mr. Quatro had said, why are assault weapons needed and sold in the marketplace anyhow?

Well first of all it's the Bill of "Rights", not the Bill of "Needs" so what one person thinks we need is immaterial but the 2nd Amendment does mention "well regulated" which in 18th century parlance meant "proficient".

So let me ask you can you think of a better militia weapon than an AR-15? Is there another weapon that shares the same ammo, aiming system, cleaning kits, spare parts and accessories? Is there another weapon that would be better for familiarizing civilians with our countries basic battle rifle short of actually issuing them a real one like the Swiss?

[vienna]

The Packard car company used to have an advert tagline that touted their products: "Ask the man who owns one". I'm just going to leave these links about the persons who actually "owned" yesterday's tragedy:


‘A gun killed 17 of my classmates — STFU’: Parkland student crushes Tomi Lahren’s latest pro-gun rant --

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/gun...-pro-gun-rant/


Florida school shooting survivors slam Tomi Lahren for anti-gun control tweet --

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fl...rticle/2649203











<O>

[Platapus]

We should be focusing our efforts on finding out why some people feel that killing other people (strangers) is a viable solution to what they perceive to be a problem.

We don't have a gun problem in the US; we have a people choosing to kill people problem in the US. The firearms are an enabler. One does not solve a problem by mitigating an enabler

But, solving people problems is a lot harder than just passing even more gun laws and patting ourselves on the head for "doing something"

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

But, solving people problems is a lot harder than just passing even more gun laws and patting ourselves on the head for "doing something"

I thought this article laid out the dilemma quite clearly:

What can we do? What should we do?

The answers are not easy, and they inevitably involve a trade-off: accepting the unacceptable, or restricting our freedoms. The three big ones are freedom of the press (publicity gives oxygen to these kinds of acts, so restricting coverage will reduce copycats); the right to bear arms (guns don't cause human evil, but of course they make it easier to carry out); and due process (targeting potential mass shooters, or mentally ill people in general, is possible, but requires us to curtail Americans' civil rights before they have actually committed a crime).

It is by no means clear that any of these solutions would be more effective than the others, and each of them involves punishing a very large number of people in order to stop the evil-doings of a very small number of people.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...215-story.html

[mapuc]

Every time I hear or read about these things in America I ask myself

When, when will the ordinary American say enough ?

Secondly I know USA have this 2nd amendment, I don't know it in detail.

Would it be seen as altering it, if the government or the President put some restriction into it.

Such as
Every American has the right the bear arms but only up to a certain caliber
and/or
Each American has the right to bear arm but only one per citizens

I'm only a foreigner who's wondering.

It is a domestic problems and it is the Americans and their politicians who have to solve this, not the entire world.

Markus