US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[u crank]

GOP President GW Bush fails to enact any sort of viable, common sense economic policy or safeguards against big businesses and bid financial institutions mismanaging and plundering the economy, leading to the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression of 1929, in turn leading to massive layoffs, record unemployment, record bankruptcies, and the most bank failures sine 1929.

If you are going give us a history lesson please tell the whole story. No one doubts the Bush administrations failures in that regard but..it is also common knowledge that the Clinton administrations' deregulation policies played a major roll in the financial crisis of 2008.

I don't know; maybe you found the Great Recession enjoyable..

I lost a job I hope to stay in until retirement and a pension in 2009. Thanks Bubba.

As far as regretting voting for Hillary....

I think we've had this discusion before. Nothing happens in politics that isn't connected to the comedy of errors that procedded it. That would include the last election and the players in that election. Hillary is still around and has attacked the President more than once. If only she would go away. Sorry but you cannot mention Trumps' victory without her name coming up and the subsequent controversies.

In fact, the only function she currently serves is to be a distracting 'straw man' used by Trump and his minions to deflect from their own failing, idiocies and shortcomings.

This was just last week on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/20/politi...sis/index.html

And besides it makes for good and endless discusion. Which I like.

So here is my offshore Canadian viewpoint for the day.

Do I think Donald Trump should be president. No. Why? Three reasons. 1. Not qualified. 2. Wrong temperment 3. Smell of coruption.

Do I think Hillary Clinton should have been president. No. Same three reasons.

I also think I have a pretty good idea why Trump is president. There are a lot of reasons and this is one of them.

“One of the biggest challenges we have to our democracy is the degree to which we don’t share a common baseline of facts. What the Russians exploited, but it was already here, is we are operating in completely different information universes. If you watch Fox News, you are living on a different planet than you are if you listen to NPR.”

Barack Obama Jan. 2018

There it is. That arrogance and smugness. That dismissal of people with a different political opinion. He's done it before and he is still doing it. I don't even think he realizes it but that attitude is one important reason why Donald Trump is eating Big Macks in the oval office.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

If you are going give us a history lesson please tell the whole story. No one doubts the Bush administrations failures in that regard but..it is also common knowledge that the Clinton administrations' deregulation policies played a major roll in the financial crisis of 2008.

...

If you really want to go into the history of deregulation, it is well to remember deregulation has been one of the keystones of the GOP since FDR imposed corrective regulation to right the mess of The Great Depression. In the decades since, the GOP has, at every turn, very actively sought to eliminate regulation, even in the face of the fact a lot of regulations are in place to prevent excesses by particular businesses and their leaders. In recent history: Under Reagan, the GOP deregulated airlines and the result is the mess we see now with poor service and mounting prices and fees; they also, starting under Reagan and carried on into GHW Bush, deregulated the savings and loan industry and the result was the collapse of S&Ls and the biggest recession until 2008's debacle. It is true some of the deregulation resulting in a lot of the excesses leading to 2008 were enacted under Clinton, but it should also be noted they were passed at the insistence of the GOP Congressional contingent (remember the Great GOP Contract with (on?) America?) and was forced through by the GOP as part of a compromise package where Clinton got some of his programs passed and the GOP got their deregulation. At the time, the GOP said the deregulation would work because the financial sector had learned its lessons and would be very strictly 'self-regulating'; how the GOP leadership managed to keep a straight face every time they uttered 'self-regulating' is, indeed, impressive. Not only was the financial sector in no way 'self-regulating', they were actively inventing new ways to enrich themselves at the expense of the middle-class. Compounding the lack of accountability was the GW Bush Administration's further loosening the reins on corporate irresponsibility by eliminating more regulations, refusing to enforce those they could not revoke, and even appointing person to head regulatory agencies or boards who had no intention of fulfilling their obligations under law. The real estate financing and general financial sectors were left to 'self-regulate' and the result was The Great Recession...

Sometimes regulation may seem onerous or unnecessary, but I am always reminded how, on some of my past projects, when creating new procedures we used to use the phrases "Coffee is Hot" or "Shower Hair Dryer" when trying to plan for possible end-user screw-ups; it may seem silly to put the words "Coffee is Hot" on actual hot coffee or put the warning "Do Not Use Hair Dryer in Shower" in hair dryer instructions, but there are doofusses out there who actually need to be planned for in order to minimize your own liability and hold them accountable for their own actions. For those who do know coffee is hot and hair dryers should not be used in a shower, such admonitions have no effect on their normal daily conduct. Likewise, for those who are not inclined to 'game' systems or laws, regulations have no effect, but for those who are self-styled 'smartest guys in the room' and for whom accountability is anathema, regulation serves to ensure they will be appropriately held in rein and, if the do engage in excess, they will answer...

Originally Posted by u crank

...

I lost a job I hope to stay in until retirement and a pension in 2009. Thanks Bubba.

...

I'm sorry to hear about that and I know an awful lot of people who were in that same state. I made the unfortunate decision, in late 2008, after completing a difficult project, to take some time off and recoup. Virtually overnight, I found myself suddenly too old, too under-educated, not in the right demographic and a host of other reasons, all of which were not an issue before, why I was suddenly unqualified for positions in which I had decades of experience and knowledge. I guess if you can get a fresh out of college inexperienced MBA who will work for less than someone with long experience but no college degree (in my case, just a high school diploma), the bargain is in the payslip not the effectiveness. Ah, the glories of 'self-regulation'...

Originally Posted by u crank

...

I think we've had this discusion before. Nothing happens in politics that isn't connected to the comedy of errors that procedded it. That would include the last election and the players in that election. Hillary is still around and has attacked the President more than once. If only she would go away. Sorry but you cannot mention Trumps' victory without her name coming up and the subsequent controversies.

...

Actually, the person who keeps bring Hillary & Co. into the public arena is Trump, himself. At every opportunity, particularly when he desperately needs a distraction or deflection, he raises up the Pants Suited One as his straw man/whipping boy/far-fetched exoneration attempt. Trump is still smarting that the majority of the class didn't vote him for Prom King and fumes about it continuously, sometimes in situations that are completely out of context: Mr. Trump, what about the NK crisis? DT: 'What about Lying Hillary?'; Mr. Trump, what about the Russian connection to people in your administration? DT: 'Why isn't Lying Hillary being investigated?'; Mr. Trump, what about your on-going failures in enacting your programs? DT: 'What about the voter fraud that gave Hillary the popular victory?', and so on...

Prior Presidents have basically avoided mentioning a prior administration since it is a lose-lose situation. If you criticize, it looks like you're making excuses to cove your own failings and that makes you look "sad, weak"; if you in any way speak in approbation, you risk have the electorate make a favorable comparison of the prior administration in comparison to your own, making the electorate long for 'the good old days' before. The best tack is to just ignore the outside elements, thereby not giving them a public interest foothold, and strive to make your own mark devoid of risky comparisons or unnecessary conflict...

As far as the media is concerned, they will mainly react when they see an opportunity to stoke controversy. If Trump ignored Hillary and did not rise to the media baiting him, they would soon tire and move on to something else. If this case, Trump is the architect of his own miseries...

Originally Posted by u crank

...

I also think I have a pretty good idea why Trump is president. There are a lot of reasons and this is one of them.

...

There it is. That arrogance and smugness. That dismissal of people with a different political opinion. He's done it before and he is still doing it. I don't even think he realizes it but that attitude is one important reason why Donald Trump is eating Big Macks in the oval office.

I would be willing to bet arrogance was not very high on the reasons people voted for Trump and I am sure the Trump victory had very much less to do with anti-arrogance (Trump is the Master of Arrogance) than with good, old-fashioned gaming of a system. Gaming has been going on for a long-time; when Obama one his second term, the GOP strategists were shocked into near apoplexy because they thought they had gamed the Electoral College votes enough to deny Obama a second term, even if he won the popular vote; I recall watching Dick Cheney and Carl Rove, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, on the Election Night after the results came in; they as much as insinuated Obama's camp had rigged the election; I think they only thing that stopped them from going further was common sense and the knowledge they, in turn would be asked why they were so certain they would have won...

Again, arrogance is not at all a major factor, although it does serve well as a weak cover for the real reasons. I do not ever recall looking at a ballot, seeing two candidates and thinking, "Well, Jones has got no experience, has no knowledge of issues or a solid platform; Smith has loads of experience, a strong knowledge of issues, a track record of solid accomplishments and a solid platform, but he is arrogant, so I'll vote for Jones..."...

Originally Posted by u crank

...

There it is. That arrogance and smugness. That dismissal of people with a different political opinion. He's done it before and he is still doing it. I don't even think he realizes it but that attitude is one important reason why Donald Trump is eating Big Macks in the oval office.

As far as "dismissal of people with a different political opinion.", well, you have to make up your mind: is arrogance a laudable asset or a damnable liability? This statement you made "There it is. That arrogance and smugness. That dismissal of people with a different political opinion. He's done it before and he is still doing it.", stands as a very apt description of Trump; so which is it? By your metric, giving arrogance as a major, disqualifying failing, Trump is not long for the Oval Office...








<O>

[vienna]

The investigation into Russian influence on the 2016 Election just took an interesting twist:

FBI investigating whether Russian money went to NRA to help Trump --

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...195231139.html


Curiouser and curiouser...









<O>

[Rockstar]

News flash.... no, its not interesting.

[Dowly]

@Rockstar: Unless you have some inside information, you can't know if it is true or not.

[Rockstar]

Your right Dowly, I saw the error of my ways and deleted the post. I'm giving one trick ponies a bad name, sorry.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Rockstar: Unless you have some inside information, you can't know if it is true or not.

Also, In regards to the article he didn't say it was the truth, he said it was interesting.

[mapuc]

Yesterday I heard something interesting on the radio.

It is well known that each President of the USA is more or less "not-so-much-loved"

This guy who was working with public relation or something like that

Gave us a lot of example of how the media manipulated videos and other things related to President Trump.

One of the example he use was from Mr. Trumps visit to Japan
The media had cut out 5-10 sec and thereby making Trump look like a....when he emptied the whole box of food to the fish-
These 5 -10 sec who was cut away showed the Japanese Minister doing exactly the same before Trump.

As he said to give the ordinary people a bad view on the President.

This made me sad.
A news paper, TV-stations or Radio -shall present the news in a neutral way.

Markus

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by mapuc

As he said to give the ordinary people a bad view on the President.

This made me sad.
A news paper, TV-stations or Radio -shall present the news in a neutral way.

Markus

Welcome to the party pal

[Skybird]

Shutdown.

If it stays that, an earthquake will haunt the American state and society. And still:

You cannot endlessly spend more than you earn. If the apple costs one Taler, and you have thrre Talers, how many apples can you buy? Heck, every first class school kid can answer that question. Only greedy adults make this a complicated thing.

Can the circumstance that many Americans and families will be hit by a continuing shutdown, be an excuse for always buying five apples while having only three Talers, and 2 are added to the debt bill?

The answer is very clear. No, this cannt be an excuse forever. Not in America, not in any other country. The West lives and overspends as if money means NOTHING anymore, and by that we learn to think that nothing is worth anything anymore. We make claims, we think claiming gives us right - that we need to earn, that we need to save before spending, that we need to acchieve things: that is much harder to comprehend for many Wetserners now. Always claiming, always taking, always demanding instead. Even intentionally forming your life'S plan on this flawed logic. The others owe to us. The others must maintain us. The state (the others, in the end), have to spend for us. I want it - that already gives me claim for it.

Politicians do not correct this, they do not teahc people how wriong this thinking is. Instead, they motivate people additonally to think like this, pushing them deeper into dependency. Bigger dependency: more power for the political caste. The polit-priests.

Of course, a reflective self-analysis most likely will not take place. One will try to find political deals to bypass the problem, and start overspending again. The question what America wants, is more important than what America can afford. The Wants shall be the priority of politics, not the Cans. Money is nothing. Just add to the debts, cannot hurt to do so, right?

In America, or anywhere else: its a criminal system, and the actors all should serve life behind iron bars. Them, and all their economic experts and monetarian gurus. And the people shall feel ashamed that they legitimise and tolerate this gangster operetta on and on and on.

For in principle it is so very simple: if you have three talers and the apple costs 1 Taler, you can only buy none, one, two or three apples, but not four or more.Telling you can, means to talk drivel. Maybe some farmer lends oyu an additonal apple. But if he is clever, he demands you to pay your debt by the end of the week. If he is clever, he points his shotgun at you next time you come and do not pay your debt but demand another apple for free.

Only idiots, unscrupulous parasites and gangsters think that debts must not be paid back, and that you can always take without giving back.

[Skybird]

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

Alexis de Tocqueville

[Jimbuna]

It is the first shutdown ever to happen while the same party, the Republicans, controls Congress and the White House.

The impasse will affect hundreds of thousands of federal workers, and the recriminations have already begun.

President Donald Trump accused Democrats of putting politics above the interests of the American people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42757091

Trump will not be happy having this on his CV (resume in the US?).

[Rockstar]

Party politics gotta love it.


Been through several shutdowns and they aren't that big of a deal really. Long live the party!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Been through several shutdowns and they aren't that big of a deal really.

Except for those who now have no income anymore, I would assume...?

[Rockstar]

If someone can refrain from buying the latest video games and cell phones they should be able to weather any storm. But frankly the impact on peoples finances of the big bad shutdown should be minimal. Its hard to find anyone who's not getting paid. People at a CONUS AFEES or NEX and civilian yardbirds might not be but that's about it from what I can tell.

When I was active duty we still got paid. The only change really was anything we purchased must be deemed as mission essential to keep the ship running.

Heck I'm a retiree and the eagle still poops the 1st of the month.