Excited/ dissapointed it will be PTO?

[DeepSix]

Originally Posted by Beery

...So let's give our fellow players' requests the respect they deserve.

Please read the first line of my post. I said my response was a general one, not aimed at anybody in particular. I meant no disrespect and to be honest I resent the implication that I did.

@Type941 - For the sake of getting it on the record clearly, I meant no disrespect - but I *did* mean to disagree with you and I'm not apologizing for that. I think the reason we have the forum is to discuss, and that's all I meant to do. We're all splitting hairs over this as-yet unseen product anyway. My apologies in advance if I offended anybody.

Personally I'd like to see Japanese and British subs modelled - including very rare models...

Fine - mod them.

Peace out.

[Type941]

ah... when did this turn into an argument? Was it my fault? Sorry. Not meant to be. I'm not asking to sabsitute US subs with Jap subs, but from educational point of view, I'm just so much more interested in the non traditional, less talked about and shown on Discovery type of thing, not your average US ww2 sub shown in so many movies. That's just me though. I hope devs at LEAST allow people to mod the game. If they are not budgeted for Jap or Soviet (forget it) and UK subs, that's fine, but don't lock the game that makes it a crime basically in modern PC gaming world. If you Devs keep locking games up, we'll stop buying them even. If new consoles turn out so good, allow for simulation, I would not touch a non moddable PC game. To me a PC game is best first of all for my ability to mod it. That's the gist of my message - give me the US sub but at least let me mod it to a japanese one. But Looking at how difficult modding of SH3 goes, I am not holding my breath.

Besides, I'm also hoping this game won't be some sort of hidden message of fight against the evil doers by brave american soldiers, connected to current world order, supplemented by comparable dialogoues and cut scenes.

Asking for a moddable, modern, high tech, WW2 sim, being fine with in Pacific, hope that's cleared now.


PS. At the beginning of the war, Soviet navy quite possible had the largest submarine fleet.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Type941

PS. At the beginning of the war, Soviet navy quite possible had the largest submarine fleet.

Yes, they did but in four widely separated bodies of water -Northern, Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific. They were poorly maintained and lacked modern communications, sonar and even torpedo fire control equipment. Most of the commanders had zero initiative or direction from above. In the one area they might have made a difference, the Baltic - the U-Boat training ground and vital lifeline to the German armaments industry- they were shut behind minefields and extensive multiple net barriers and so harried by ASW forces they accomplished little.

I'd much rather be a Japanese sub commander than a Russian one.

[Type941]

Ok ok, they were sh*t, let's go back to whatever but them.

[TangoShadow]

Hi,

I thought the Atlantic was where the majority of U-Boat operations took place, and where most of the historic battles occurred?? The Pacific was small-time by comparison, was it not?

Personally 'd like to see some more work done on SH3 (I know it isn't going to happen outside of the mod community). More compartments on the boat, improved interior damage modelling (i.e. more of it), and a few more bug fixes.

--TangoShadow

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by TangoShadow

Hi,

I thought the Atlantic was where the majority of U-Boat operations took place, and where most of the historic battles occurred?? The Pacific was small-time by comparison, was it not?

Except for sinking more than 1,100 merchants, eight aircraft carriers, three heavy cruisers, a battleship, and eight light cruisers, cutting off the supply of oil and supplies to Japan and nearly blockading them into surrender, no, American submarines didn't accomplish much in the Pacific.

American submarines also managed to sink a whopping total of zero German ships during 86 Atlantic patrols. So if that sounds exciting to you, you might want to get on the horn with UbiSoft.

[DS]

The Silent Hunter series was born in the PTO, and it is more than time to revisit the PTO in my opinion. I first got into submarine simulations with the first Silent Hunter, but I have played every submarine simulation that has come out since, and a few that pre-date SH1.

The U.S. Silent Service's war in the Pacific is rich both in terms of history and culture, and in terms of variety of mission types, environments, and operational considerations. While the u-boat war is also of interest to me, my simulation interests really lie with U.S. Submarines in the Pacific.

While the U-boats of WW2 were mostly aimed at merchant shipping in open and usually deep water (there were a few exceptions, I know), U.S submarines engaged in merchant shipping attacks, warship attacks, supporting naval and amphibious operations, special forces insertions/extractions, aircrew recovery, harbour penetrations, littoral warfare, reconaisance, evacuations, and even operated in conjuction with allied surface forces (what the large and fast "fleet" boats were built for). As such, I believe there is a wider variety of mission types and challenges for virtual skippers in the PTO.

Also, as previously stated, a Gato, Balao, or Tench class boat is a whole different kettle of fish in terms of size, fire power, and in the later years, even technology (PPI radar, and even air conditioning!). With the exception of the Type XXI, I regard u-boats as very heartily built and commanded, but slightly more primative boats (less speed, range, size, firepower, and equipment). That said, I love them for what they were.

The U.S. fleet boats for me though, had more pesonality (named vs. numbered, battle flags and unit citations for boats, as opposed to awards for officers and crews in the german navy), and accomplishments generally were associated more with the boat (skippers rotated after 4-6 patrols in the U.S. Navy) than with the skipper or crew, whereas the accomplishments in the U-boat service tend to be associated with famous skippers more than famous hulls.

Also, the submarine war in the Pacific is well documented through books and movies (Run Silent-Run Deep, Operation Pacific, Crash Dive, Torpedo Alley, and Destination Tokyo for starters)

For me, it is definately time to return to the PTO, and resurrect the stories of the USS Wahoo, USS Tang, USS Barb, and all the other boats that all travelled far and long from arctic to tropical waters, from the deep blue ocean to the painfully shallow waters of Tokyo Bay, and sank such a massive amount of shipping that Japan was strangled from the sea.

[Sulikate]

Originally Posted by Type941

I am not dissapointed with the theater. I am a bit dissapointed that they went down the route and made the game sellable (i.e. make it american). I want Pacific, but I want to play as Japanese subs as well. It's got a huge cool factor to it, much like it would have been cool to play as a soviet sub in European theater. Sadly it seems this spirit of making things not mainstream is out of Ubisoft, regardles of how much hype this game they give.

Totally agreed here.

[Payoff]

It's been a long time comin, since the original Silent Hunter. IMHO

[WOD]

Originally Posted by Sulikate

Totally agreed here.

I agree too

But I think if SH IV will play in pacific theatre then some new wanted features should be not in the game....especially Wolfpacks. Submarine Warfare plays a minor role in the pacific and the idea of Wolfpacks in WWII are fully established by germans...so american sub wolfpacks, if it would be in the game, wouldn´t be historically correct.

Plz correct me if I´m wrong.

But I like pacific theatre, playing still SH I and SH II Pacific Aces. And it makes still much fun.

But when Silent Hunter IV will be released there should be an expansion pack with new features for Silent Hunter III, cause then the game is not so different to SH III, cause it will use the same engine....Then all would be able to play the pacific theatre with the new features but in the Atlantic with the new features too.

That is what I hope, cause I like both theatres....atlantic a bit more but not much more than the pacific.

Greetz from Germany

Originally Posted by WOD

But when Silent Hunter IV will be released there should be an expansion pack with new features for Silent Hunter III, cause then the game is not so different to SH III, cause it will use the same engine....Then all would be able to play the pacific theatre with the new features but in the Atlantic with the new features too.

My vote is for that idea too.

[Theta Sigma]

Having it in the Pacific is a dream come true for me. Being stuck driving Yank subs is the rub.

Is that set in stone?

[Subnuts]

"Knock Knock!"
"Who's there?"
"Atlantic Theatre!"
"Knock Knock!"
"Who's there?"
"Atlantic Theatre!"
"Knock Knock!"
"Who's there?"
"Atlantic Theatre!"
"Knock Knock!"
"Who's there?"
"Atlantic Theatre!"
"Knock Knock!"
"Who's there?"
"Atlantic Theatre!"
"Knock Knock!"
"Who's there?"
"Atlantic Theatre!"

[DS]

Originally Posted by WOD

But I think if SH IV will play in pacific theatre then some new wanted features should be not in the game....especially Wolfpacks. Submarine Warfare plays a minor role in the pacific and the idea of Wolfpacks in WWII are fully established by germans...so american sub wolfpacks, if it would be in the game, wouldn´t be historically correct.

Plz correct me if I´m wrong.

Greetz from Germany

Hi,

With respect, if submarine warfare interests you, you would probably enjoy reading up a bit on the U.S. submarine war in the Pacific. You might be surprised to learn that U.S. submarines were largly succesful in economically strangling Japan, something the U-boats valiently attempted, but failed, to do to the United Kingdom. Further, if memory serves, U.S. submarines sank more Japanese tonnage than all other classes of U.S. naval vessels combined, with some boat tonnages approaching and in the case of the USS Flasher (I believe), even exceeding 100,000 tons.

Lastly, U.S. submarines did operate in small wolf packs (2-4 boats) on a number of war patrols later in the war. I believe that they were operationally different in the application of tactics in that german wolfpacks tended to be centrally controlled by Bdu while U.S. wolf packs decentralized control to a commodore commanding the wolf pack locally from one of the boats in the wolf pack itself. This was a significant difference in methods that is significant and worthy of recreating.

The U.S. submarine war in the Pacific was rich with developments in submarine warfare and was historically significant.

Cheers.


(added: USS Flasher Link)

http://www.rddesigns.com/249.html

[Torplexed]

Frankly, if Japan had ever gotten her escort/convoy act together (as they were starting to do late in the war) the USN probably would have been forced to adopt wolfpack tactics on the scale the Germans used.

As it was, the defective torpedoes the US submarine service was cursed with lulled the Japanese into a false sense of complaceny. However, by 1943 the combination of large numbers of mass-produced Gatos and a fully working torpedo came as a nasty shock to the IJN. Had the defects of the Mark 14 been found sooner perhaps Japan would have been forced to deal with the threat sooner. Might have given the campaign a whole different flavor.