Why can I not dive after an emergency blow?

XenonSurf · 12-04-17, 09:13 PM

Good question from the dev: why using emergency blow?
I'm not a skipper, but my understanding is that it's a very last ressort to get the sub to a depth allowing the crew to abandon the sub alive.
I see no other good purpose, everything else can be done by normal operations.
Also when you are using this desperation move, then the enemy is the last thing you should care about.

In a few videos for the public you usually see such quick surfacings. It's done to make more 'action' for the public, else pictures of subs would be plain boring... But one scene from Red October is quite realistic: vertical evasion, thus getting the sub ''out of the water with big waves", is a consequence of changing depth and surfacing at max. speed to evade torpedos, you lose a significant amount of speed by doing so, so a good skipper would avoid that making the sub stabilize at 50 feet or so before releasing a noisemaker and going down again. In reality it's so that you cannot do that too often in a row for the sake of your crew... What are the effects of going from 800 feet to 50 feet in 2 minutes and this more times? I don't think this ends well...

A sub on the surface is as good as any warship stucked at 0 knots...Both are lost, just zombies...

ETR3(SS) · 12-05-17, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

But one scene from Red October is quite realistic: vertical evasion, thus getting the sub ''out of the water with big waves", is a consequence of changing depth and surfacing at max. speed to evade torpedos, you lose a significant amount of speed by doing so, so a good skipper would avoid that making the sub stabilize at 50 feet or so before releasing a noisemaker and going down again. In reality it's so that you cannot do that too often in a row for the sake of your crew... What are the effects of going from 800 feet to 50 feet in 2 minutes and this more times? I don't think this ends well...

It's not realistic at all really. Once you hit the chicken switches you're going to the surface, there's no stopping it short so you can remain submerged. Note that EMBT Blow stands for Emergency Main Ballast Tank Blow, not tactical but Emergency.

subcritical · 12-17-17, 08:54 AM

I would like to add that the time to recharge the air banks seems way to short anyway. Take a look at some videos on YouTube where they blow the tanks next to the pier, that is a lot of air to recharge.

But like ETR mentioned, once you've committed to throwing the switches knowing the tactical disadvantage you will have but weighing the survival of ship against that, you are going to the surface unless you've already taken on too much water. Going back under without repairs is just making the enemies job easier.

C-Wolf · 12-30-17, 11:31 PM

Right, wrong, or indifferent, an emergency blow shouldn't require having to run the HPACs to recharge the HP air system, unless the flasks were too low to begin with. . . And woe be unto the crew that goes around diving with minimum air for a single pull of the chicken switches anyway.

As coded into the game, it's unrealistic, but it is what it is. In a tactical environment, you're dead meat on the surface anyway. And a blow to abandon ship? In the cold waters of the North Atlantic, you'd choke to death as your nuts ricocheted off your uvula, and that's before your core temp pegged the popsicle indication. We carried (2) three-man life rafts. . . This was more to placate the wives and parents that little Johnnie would eventually be rescued. An implosion is far more humane - you're more likely to burst into flame before you ever get wet as the atmosphere in the compartment explosively compresses. --These are great scenarios to sow and let germinate in a new kid's head after their first dive. . .

Fairwater planes are of no use out of water unless the ballast tanks are filled with helium and the boat is flying. And stern planes are for leveling the boat in conjunction with the trim and drain system; they're used for depth-keeping in emergency situations (emergency deeps, etc.) Bow planes are preferable since being forward of the sail the boat "follows" and reacts to them faster at higher speeds - this is one reason the US has moved away from them (for SSNs.)

The Trident is a different animal in the way it behaves due to it's displacement/size, but they dive relatively fast once the plug is pulled, --for what they are, which can best be described as a big honkin, very quiet pig with the ability to conduct urban renewal on a massive scale. The SSGN re-purposing mod for the first four was one of the smartest ideas the Navy has come up with in recent memory, --especially since the boats have been maintained in such great condition over the years and have lots of life left.

I just downloaded the game today (and joined up here) and have to say it's the best subsim (AI-wise) since RSR. As a submarine sonarman for 21 years, I'm pretty critical of subsims too. As a CG artist these days, I like the graphics a lot!

Aktungbby · 12-31-17, 10:55 AM

C-Wolf!

12-04-17, 09:13 PM	#1
XenonSurf Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany, Italy Posts: 1,721 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 4	Good question from the dev: why using emergency blow? I'm not a skipper, but my understanding is that it's a very last ressort to get the sub to a depth allowing the crew to abandon the sub alive. I see no other good purpose, everything else can be done by normal operations. Also when you are using this desperation move, then the enemy is the last thing you should care about. In a few videos for the public you usually see such quick surfacings. It's done to make more 'action' for the public, else pictures of subs would be plain boring... But one scene from Red October is quite realistic: vertical evasion, thus getting the sub ''out of the water with big waves", is a consequence of changing depth and surfacing at max. speed to evade torpedos, you lose a significant amount of speed by doing so, so a good skipper would avoid that making the sub stabilize at 50 feet or so before releasing a noisemaker and going down again. In reality it's so that you cannot do that too often in a row for the sake of your crew... What are the effects of going from 800 feet to 50 feet in 2 minutes and this more times? I don't think this ends well... A sub on the surface is as good as any warship stucked at 0 knots...Both are lost, just zombies... Last edited by XenonSurf; 12-04-17 at 09:26 PM.

12-30-17, 11:31 PM	#4
C-Wolf Watch Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: New England Posts: 30 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Right, wrong, or indifferent, an emergency blow shouldn't require having to run the HPACs to recharge the HP air system, unless the flasks were too low to begin with. . . And woe be unto the crew that goes around diving with minimum air for a single pull of the chicken switches anyway. As coded into the game, it's unrealistic, but it is what it is. In a tactical environment, you're dead meat on the surface anyway. And a blow to abandon ship? In the cold waters of the North Atlantic, you'd choke to death as your nuts ricocheted off your uvula, and that's before your core temp pegged the popsicle indication. We carried (2) three-man life rafts. . . This was more to placate the wives and parents that little Johnnie would eventually be rescued. An implosion is far more humane - you're more likely to burst into flame before you ever get wet as the atmosphere in the compartment explosively compresses. --These are great scenarios to sow and let germinate in a new kid's head after their first dive. . . Fairwater planes are of no use out of water unless the ballast tanks are filled with helium and the boat is flying. And stern planes are for leveling the boat in conjunction with the trim and drain system; they're used for depth-keeping in emergency situations (emergency deeps, etc.) Bow planes are preferable since being forward of the sail the boat "follows" and reacts to them faster at higher speeds - this is one reason the US has moved away from them (for SSNs.) The Trident is a different animal in the way it behaves due to it's displacement/size, but they dive relatively fast once the plug is pulled, --for what they are, which can best be described as a big honkin, very quiet pig with the ability to conduct urban renewal on a massive scale. The SSGN re-purposing mod for the first four was one of the smartest ideas the Navy has come up with in recent memory, --especially since the boats have been maintained in such great condition over the years and have lots of life left. I just downloaded the game today (and joined up here) and have to say it's the best subsim (AI-wise) since RSR. As a submarine sonarman for 21 years, I'm pretty critical of subsims too. As a CG artist these days, I like the graphics a lot! __________________ Sagire, Classis, Destructum! Last edited by C-Wolf; 12-31-17 at 12:38 PM.

12-31-17, 10:55 AM	#5
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,023 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome aboard! C-Wolf! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

12-17-17, 08:54 AM	#3
subcritical Watch Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Right here Posts: 26 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	I would like to add that the time to recharge the air banks seems way to short anyway. Take a look at some videos on YouTube where they blow the tanks next to the pier, that is a lot of air to recharge. But like ETR mentioned, once you've committed to throwing the switches knowing the tactical disadvantage you will have but weighing the survival of ship against that, you are going to the surface unless you've already taken on too much water. Going back under without repairs is just making the enemies job easier.