Strategy for cruise missile launch

Barleyman · 11-08-17, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

so then the thing to do would be able to head as far away as possible from all contacts and let er rip i suppose?

And go have a coffee/beer/bring a book. You should kill the patrol boats with ASW missiles at least, I'm not sure if those Rigas are important but Grisha / Krivak are dangerous at least. Hard to say if the planes actually pick up the launch i.e. If you'd have a free pass after sinking the last frigate

After your initial strike against patrol ships head north at 10 knots. If you're not dead within an hour or so st time compression you're getting to a more reasonable firing position

Falkirion · 11-08-17, 10:00 PM

Well heck I must have been lucky. I got sent up to Arkangel for the port strike mission and managed to get a night time attack time. Had all the escorts/merchants as solid contacts.
Fired my first set of TLAMs while headed straight in at 090, fired the next set off when I was heading 180 and then turned tail and ran once I had all 8 confirmed hitting the IP.

It must have been luck getting the right attack time because I had no ASW Aircraft or port guards looking for me beyond the port guard firing up their active sonar. Night so no merchants could see the smoke plumes I guess. Also the Arkangel port depth is deep enough that you can comfortably run at a higher speed without cavatation being a problem.

I guess what I'd do if I got a daytime attack. I'd get close to a merchant and fire off my TLAMs, reload and fire off the next salvo then book it elsewhere. Use his active noise to suck up any attacks/confuse the escorts while I stayed silent as possible and evaded.

Barleyman · 11-08-17, 10:08 PM

With realistic reload that business takes a while..

Spartaner251 · 11-09-17, 03:41 AM

There is a clock in the upper left corner of the worldmap, so you can also wait close to the port till night and then get so close to trigger the mission.

GoldenRivet · 11-09-17, 11:09 AM

keep in mind this is the single mission i was referring to in the OP

in the campaign you can wait the hours out, this much is true, but not in the single mission. though the difficulty i have experienced with TLAM strikes in the past has lead me to avoid them in the campaign altogether. though i will be using a different approach from here on in

I have found that the mission starts with you only about 10 miles from the coast, when in reality the cruise missile strike could be completed from a hundred miles out to sea if necessary, so the best strategy is to just leave the area for a point on the map as far away as possible and let your TLAMs go from there.

this takes forever and a day and a half to do it, but this is the most realistic scenario, i don't know of a sub skipper on earth who would maneuver his boat to spitting distance of the shore in water barely 100 feet deeper than his keel to fire a TLAM sortie... especially when there are ASW surface vessels helicopters and aircraft patrolling the immediate area. strategy might work on ISIS cave dwellers... but we're talking about one of the Soviet Navy's busiest naval bases here

EDIT: i have also noted that (1) the enemy will only fire their SS-N-14s if they are within sensor range of your TLAM launch and (2) enemy surface vessels do not appear to make any attempt to shoot down TLAMs as they pass overhead on the way to target, so taking out enemy surface vessels between you and port is a non-issue.

XenonSurf · 11-09-17, 12:28 PM

The most important factors for a successful missile launch and after-evasion are these in my opinion:

- What is the safe distance to enemy ships?
- At which distance enemy active/passive torpedos will find me immediately?

I will assume there are no enemy subs nearby because this will complicate my task to a big extend.

Before I fire my TLAMs or attack ships with Harpoons I will decide for a random escape course first, once my missiles are launched I'm not concerned about stealth for the next minutes, so I go flank and head just under thermal layer with *low* downward planes and low downward ballasts, I don't want to get down fast but sure I want to get *far* fast. If there is no thermal layer I would just go to 150 feet to get out of sight from an improbable overflying plane or helo. It doesn't make a big difference going deeper, remember you want to go *far* away as fast as possible.

At some point, my crew will tell me about torpedos in the water, it takes some time for the enemy to launch their missiles, the missiles heading to my position and their torpedo splash. Now if the distance to the torpedos is too small I'm usually doomed, baring that I setup a savant MOSS tactic, but it's all about the 2 factors I've mentioned above, they are crucial and life-saving. The torpedo distance will govern my further tactics: If the ships were far enough away at the moment I launched my missiles, then their torpedos will also splash far away from me and I can go stealth, I can kiss the enemy good bye, otherwise I'll enter the hell of a dance...

If the ship distances are too small, you won't make it even if the enemy has 0 TMA on you, the moment you fire your missiles they know where you are. So you must deal with close-by ships first. Make a stealth wire-guided torpedo attack against the ships making sure all torpedos would hit at roughtly the same time, seconds before they hit it's a good time to launch your missiles, make your torpedos active and shallow and fire your missiles. Then evade on your random course.

I hope this gives you some good ideas to work with !

Julhelm · 11-09-17, 01:46 PM

These missions aren't supposed to be realistic. The original intention was to have something of a fresh break from sinking ships and see some land scenery go boom. Maybe we should redesign them into more like the SSN missions where you had to fight through a bunch of subs and warships to get to your launch basket.

11-09-17, 11:09 AM	#5
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	keep in mind this is the single mission i was referring to in the OP in the campaign you can wait the hours out, this much is true, but not in the single mission. though the difficulty i have experienced with TLAM strikes in the past has lead me to avoid them in the campaign altogether. though i will be using a different approach from here on in I have found that the mission starts with you only about 10 miles from the coast, when in reality the cruise missile strike could be completed from a hundred miles out to sea if necessary, so the best strategy is to just leave the area for a point on the map as far away as possible and let your TLAMs go from there. this takes forever and a day and a half to do it, but this is the most realistic scenario, i don't know of a sub skipper on earth who would maneuver his boat to spitting distance of the shore in water barely 100 feet deeper than his keel to fire a TLAM sortie... especially when there are ASW surface vessels helicopters and aircraft patrolling the immediate area. strategy might work on ISIS cave dwellers... but we're talking about one of the Soviet Navy's busiest naval bases here EDIT: i have also noted that (1) the enemy will only fire their SS-N-14s if they are within sensor range of your TLAM launch and (2) enemy surface vessels do not appear to make any attempt to shoot down TLAMs as they pass overhead on the way to target, so taking out enemy surface vessels between you and port is a non-issue. __________________

11-08-17, 10:00 PM	#2
Falkirion Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne, AUS Posts: 1,043 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Well heck I must have been lucky. I got sent up to Arkangel for the port strike mission and managed to get a night time attack time. Had all the escorts/merchants as solid contacts. Fired my first set of TLAMs while headed straight in at 090, fired the next set off when I was heading 180 and then turned tail and ran once I had all 8 confirmed hitting the IP. It must have been luck getting the right attack time because I had no ASW Aircraft or port guards looking for me beyond the port guard firing up their active sonar. Night so no merchants could see the smoke plumes I guess. Also the Arkangel port depth is deep enough that you can comfortably run at a higher speed without cavatation being a problem. I guess what I'd do if I got a daytime attack. I'd get close to a merchant and fire off my TLAMs, reload and fire off the next salvo then book it elsewhere. Use his active noise to suck up any attacks/confuse the escorts while I stayed silent as possible and evaded.

11-08-17, 10:08 PM	#3
Barleyman Gunner Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 99 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	With realistic reload that business takes a while..

11-09-17, 03:41 AM	#4
Spartaner251 Watch Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: close to berlin Posts: 18 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	There is a clock in the upper left corner of the worldmap, so you can also wait close to the port till night and then get so close to trigger the mission.

11-09-17, 12:28 PM	#6
XenonSurf Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany, Italy Posts: 1,721 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 4	The most important factors for a successful missile launch and after-evasion are these in my opinion: - What is the safe distance to enemy ships? - At which distance enemy active/passive torpedos will find me immediately? I will assume there are no enemy subs nearby because this will complicate my task to a big extend. Before I fire my TLAMs or attack ships with Harpoons I will decide for a random escape course first, once my missiles are launched I'm not concerned about stealth for the next minutes, so I go flank and head just under thermal layer with low downward planes and low downward ballasts, I don't want to get down fast but sure I want to get far fast. If there is no thermal layer I would just go to 150 feet to get out of sight from an improbable overflying plane or helo. It doesn't make a big difference going deeper, remember you want to go far away as fast as possible. At some point, my crew will tell me about torpedos in the water, it takes some time for the enemy to launch their missiles, the missiles heading to my position and their torpedo splash. Now if the distance to the torpedos is too small I'm usually doomed, baring that I setup a savant MOSS tactic, but it's all about the 2 factors I've mentioned above, they are crucial and life-saving. The torpedo distance will govern my further tactics: If the ships were far enough away at the moment I launched my missiles, then their torpedos will also splash far away from me and I can go stealth, I can kiss the enemy good bye, otherwise I'll enter the hell of a dance... If the ship distances are too small, you won't make it even if the enemy has 0 TMA on you, the moment you fire your missiles they know where you are. So you must deal with close-by ships first. Make a stealth wire-guided torpedo attack against the ships making sure all torpedos would hit at roughtly the same time, seconds before they hit it's a good time to launch your missiles, make your torpedos active and shallow and fire your missiles. Then evade on your random course. I hope this gives you some good ideas to work with !

11-09-17, 01:46 PM	#7
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 693 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	These missions aren't supposed to be realistic. The original intention was to have something of a fresh break from sinking ships and see some land scenery go boom. Maybe we should redesign them into more like the SSN missions where you had to fight through a bunch of subs and warships to get to your launch basket.