Spiess TMA (aka Four Bearings)

[Aquelarrefox]

Interesting, but I don't think you can use with real navigation. Even with simple 4 bearing in movement you should use a 45* as much because the curve the boat did gets error. Even should be better 6 min in some cases, but depend of target speed 9 or 12 min, vs half hour is a difference.

About hydro and real navigation I have a question, maybe you know. Is possible only show hydro contract in attack map?
This idea some from the limitation from the hydro operator, add the needs of lack of position marks in map, but as attack map don't have coordinates, you should read direction and have and idea of which ship formation with out ear. Yes is a experience but you can't do all by your self, no enough time in game nor real life when you attack a convoy.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Aquelarrefox

Interesting, but I don't think you can use with real navigation. Even with simple 4 bearing in movement you should use a 45* as much because the curve the boat did gets error. Even should be better 6 min in some cases, but depend of target speed 9 or 12 min, vs half hour is a difference.

About hydro and real navigation I have a question, maybe you know. Is possible only show hydro contract in attack map?
This idea some from the limitation from the hydro operator, add the needs of lack of position marks in map, but as attack map don't have coordinates, you should read direction and have and idea of which ship formation with out ear. Yes is a experience but you can't do all by your self, no enough time in game nor real life when you attack a convoy.

So, Spiess method works - it is just that at the speeds a uboat operates at while submerged, you will need to plan on doing an overhaul maneuver while surfaced after finding the targets true course and speed. Given that you can hear them further than they can see you, this is fine.

[Aquelarrefox]

You don't understand me, I didn't say it doesn't work. I say it will be so inaccurate by the error from ship change of course when you use real navigation. Possible with this method the result will be +- 10* when with the other method with only one turning you have the half. Using periscope error become a little less become bearing at funnel is much precise.

In real navigation longer interval will compensate a bit the inaccurate turning a little before the intersecting angle is no so close.

[B_K]

Spiess TMA is OK, but if someone wants to be historically correct, this method was developed long after the war. Ww2 hydrophones weren't so good, hadn't such angular resolution to be used in such a way. And of course it cost a lot of precious time.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Aquelarrefox

Interesting, but I don't think you can use with real navigation. Even with simple 4 bearing in movement you should use a 45* as much because the curve the boat did gets error. Even should be better 6 min in some cases, but depend of target speed 9 or 12 min, vs half hour is a difference.

About hydro and real navigation I have a question, maybe you know. Is possible only show hydro contract in attack map?
This idea some from the limitation from the hydro operator, add the needs of lack of position marks in map, but as attack map don't have coordinates, you should read direction and have and idea of which ship formation with out ear. Yes is a experience but you can't do all by your self, no enough time in game nor real life when you attack a convoy.

hello Aquelarrefox,
when you are talking about real navigation , you mean celestial navigation or something else ? Celestial navigation is not possible in sh3 [clock times and stars positions are not matching.look here (the damn imageshark deleted the images but you will get the meaning):http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=57]. Did that times problem solved and i missed it?

If you are not talking for celestial navigation then how are you determining your own position on map ? is there a procedure for determining your position with great accuracy ? i am suspecting that without your boat showing on map ,you will always have inaccuracies which are more responsible for the final outputs

Originally Posted by B_K

Spiess TMA is OK, but if someone wants to be historically correct, this method was developed long after the war. Ww2 hydrophones weren't so good, hadn't such angular resolution to be used in such a way. And of course it cost a lot of precious time.

hello B_K,

i didn't said that is a 'historical' method.i made the video with sh3 thats why you see it here.
I explained at the description of the video why i used the hydrophone lines.Of course,there were not back then hydrophones with super accuracy ,not even today. Even today , bearings from whatever passive device (even periscope's bearings) are not super accurate.All of them have a little 'cone' and crew is following extra procedures for minimazing the errors at outputs,procedures that demands special equipment.
The purpose of the video is to show the principles of Spiess TMA

[Aquelarrefox]

Hi, no. I know that, I tray but is reality wrong model, in surveyor so I have made star and sun positioning by total station.

What i do, Is tracking by time and speed drawing the path. Iwhen I feel I can read star or sun position I use plotter tool to see it and make a mark, I select a zoom according to weaves and clouds. Boat is hide. All graphic calculator and tools from attack and calculation disc and paper.
Sometime I have to track over one and a half week

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by makman94

hello Aquelarrefox,
when you are talking about real navigation , you mean celestial navigation or something else ? Celestial navigation is not possible in sh3 [clock times and stars positions are not matching.look here (the damn imageshark deleted the images but you will get the meaning):http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=57]. Did that times problem solved and i missed it?

If you are not talking for celestial navigation then how are you determining your own position on map ? is there a procedure for determining your position with great accuracy ? i am suspecting that without your boat showing on map ,you will always have inaccuracies which are more responsible for the final outputs



hello B_K,

i didn't said that is a 'historical' method.i made the video with sh3 thats why you see it here.
I explained at the description of the video why i used the hydrophone lines.Of course,there were not back then hydrophones with super accuracy ,not even today. Even today , bearings from whatever passive device (even periscope's bearings) are not super accurate.All of them have a little 'cone' and crew is following extra procedures for minimazing the errors at outputs,procedures that demands special equipment.
The purpose of the video is to show the principles of Spiess TMA

Most importantly - which GUI are you using? Is it your new one that is still in development?

[Aquelarrefox]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Most importantly - which GUI are you using? Is it your new one that is still in development?

Yes is prety. Purse add hitman disc, which is mod useful for calculation that old attack disc reverse. I'm taking about the disc with double external ring.