GER politics thread - Page 28

STEED · 09-25-17, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Not crystal, Tungsten.

How dull.

STEED · 09-25-17, 02:41 PM

Quote:

German election: Merkel vows to win back right-wing voters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41384550

I was thinking she had far more on her plate short term than bothering with this right now.

Skybird · 09-25-17, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41384550

I was thinking she had far more on her plate short term than bothering with this right now.

Her ego gut bruised, she was rejected. This cannot be, this shall not stand. People must be made to love her again. Else, what of her perceived self-understanding to be without alternative - due to her perfect political decision-making abilities?

If you think you are without alterntaive, it cannot be that people reject you. They must be made to follow you again. Come what will.

A narcissist whose vanity got wounded, can be quite dangerous, because he may act on grounds of revenge and ruthlessness.

---

And Henryk Broder wrote:

"Die AfD ist die Rache der Geschichte an unserer Idee, wir Deutschen müssten stets Vorbild sein. Mal eben kurz die Welt retten, dem Klima sagen, wo es lang geht und die Amis die Demokratie lehren. Endlich sind wir normal!"

Translation:

"The AfD is history's revenge upon our idea that we Germans must be the perfect paragon. Just in between saving the world, calling the shots for the global climate, and lecturing the Yanks about democracy. Eventually, wer are normal! "

Catfish · 09-26-17, 02:37 AM

Typical of Merkel, that she has learned nothing from this election. She sees nothing wrong with "her" politics, and no need or will to change anything.
She gets a slap in the face and pretends it is a victory, just because there can be no government without her and those pesky 30 percent.
She will not be the next chancellor, if she even makes it to the next regular elections at all.

It is not entirely her fault. Legislative and law-making have become a joke. Big companies write laws and make "proposals", and politicians with almost no education in that matter sign them, for the lack of knowledge, and for having no own independent experts to judge.
The people are not backed by politicians, there is no shield against greed and egomanic self-interest of big business. Maybe there never was, but now even the façade is gone.

Speaking of this, and how what we call "democracy" (the west does not have real democracy, never had) will develop, it is widely discussed which system will replace it. In the past, no governing system has survived a century. What we have now is roughly a hundred years old. It will most probably not survive the next 20 years.

Jimbuna · 09-26-17, 05:12 AM

^Well put and pretty much my estimation of the UK as well.

Skybird · 09-26-17, 05:54 AM

A German writer reminds us today that after 2 years of "Wir schaffen das!"-policy the CDU has lost every fourth voter, most of them to the AfD. There also has been a substantial drain in party memberships.

Catfish is right, and I too said it before: Merkel has learned nothing. The arrogance of those in power. They cannot imagine that somebody does not like their self-imposed shine. And if it dawns on them on some rare occasions, they snap and say "Then this is no longer my country" (quoting Merkel).

The CDU has a real dilemma there. They must get rid of Merkel, this is essential. But many Germans voted right to get Merkel. Merkel herself used the past decade to systematically kill any rival and personell alternative to her, so that there is nobody in sight in the CDu who could replace Merkel.

And the FDP, that is needed? For four years they have been out of the Budnestag. Most of those they now send into it, have no experience with that kind of work and responsiblity. The majority of FDP backseater would prefer to not end up in government already, but to use the four years in opposition to merely "arrive" again in parliamentary work. Analysis shows that most peop,e who voted for FDP, did so by quick decision, firing form the hip so to speak, not due to real cinviction and sympathy. These will look very closely what the FDP is doing, and if they see that the FDP is now allowing to get plowed under or to chnage its earlir statements on certain things related to the EU and the Euro, then the FDP could easily lose access to the Bundestag in four (five) years again when voters again run away.

A coalition between Greens, FDP, CDU and CSU, is anything but certain right now. Maybe it even is not very likely. The younger party members of the Greens by overwhelming majority refuse that coalition. And the CSU can no longer afford to just trail Merkel's policies.

New elections are absolutely possible. And then the AfD probably gains even more votes, while the FDP possibly (they got many new party members since Sunday, they said yesterday, several thousand).

The AfD will live by keeping the divisions between itself and the others alive. According behavior will need to be expected from the AfD. Constructive interests? Dont bet on it.

STEED · 09-26-17, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Her ego gut bruised, she was rejected. This cannot be, this shall not stand. People must be made to love her again.

Sounds like something out of a Mills & Boon nightmare!

STEED · 09-26-17, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Typical of Merkel, that she has learned nothing from this election. She sees nothing wrong with "her" politics, and no need or will to change anything.
She gets a slap in the face and pretends it is a victory, just because there can be no government without her and those pesky 30 percent.
She will not be the next chancellor, if she even makes it to the next regular elections at all.

It is not entirely her fault. Legislative and law-making have become a joke. Big companies write laws and make "proposals", and politicians with almost no education in that matter sign them, for the lack of knowledge, and for having no own independent experts to judge.
The people are not backed by politicians, there is no shield against greed and egomanic self-interest of big business. Maybe there never was, but now even the façade is gone.

Speaking of this, and how what we call "democracy" (the west does not have real democracy, never had) will develop, it is widely discussed which system will replace it. In the past, no governing system has survived a century. What we have now is roughly a hundred years old. It will most probably not survive the next 20 years.

I can say the biggest lobby group in our HoC is banking followed by big industry, how much backhanders and welcome to the club old boy I can only speculate on. Career politician's here are the bloody worst kind to busy feathering their nests, sounds like you got the same problem in Germany.

Skybird · 09-26-17, 09:14 AM

Yesterday I wrote about that Merkel quiote and how she weaseled around admitting her responsiblity. (post #410). I am obviously not the only one who has noted that.

In German:

http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2017/09...hp_ref=germany

Its the Twilight of Merkel.

Winner of the election: Putin. If Merkels falls, he has gotten what he wanted most: a paralysed Germany, the AfD in influential position ready to keep the media busy, and a leader-free and weak EU that is not able to oppose Russia seriously.

Skybird · 09-26-17, 01:23 PM

Even although one could have known what Macronman would say in his speech on the state of the EU, that he would demand more super state powers, more centralization and with that: totalitarianism, more planned economy, that he would demand a transfer union (although avoiding to call it that, of course) and an automatic income generation for an ever growing EU bureaucracy by imposing new taxes in the peopel that will be directly collected by the EU - to hear it in explicit words nevertheless is a shock, kind of. Listening to it one really could become thankful for the German voting result that makes it very unlikely that things will go the way Macron wants them to go. If some people still argue that the EU doe snto want to be a super state - Macronman, the grand French visionary for more centralism and government planning everything, has proven them wrong today, and gave evidencer that this is exactly what he and many others in the EU indeed want.

Its not a restart for a better EU. Its a nightmare that he described, with all my concerns and worries coming true. What he said today, in my ears is a long list of threats and intimidations.

This madness must be stopped.

STEED · 09-26-17, 05:05 PM

I know this is more to do with the UK but I posted it here as it looks like the French are taking charge. I wonder how Merkel will see this as a threat and a shift in power away from her now she has been weaken.

What is Macron doing saying reformed EU? Our former PM David Cameron tried this and failed.

Quote:

Emmanuel Macron says Britain could be part of reformed EU after Brexit

The French President sets out a bold vision for a more efficient Europe, working more closely on defence, immigration and finance.

http://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-m...rexit-11054531

Skybird · 09-26-17, 07:44 PM

"To reform" is tricky word to translate, it is French for more centralization, stronger state, own tax raising, communising of national debts, building paper tigers and parallel military structures to already now underfunded NATO, Brussel gaining the say on national economic policy, national labour policy, national social policy, and the net paying countries, namely Germany, having to pay for most of all this, while giving advise to net receiving countries to perform intentionally worse in state managemet to gain in inefficiency and so getting more claim for transfer payments and reducing their financial obligations even more. That is Macronism. It is meant to give the man a bright shine.

In France Macron after shoprt time already is far more unpopular than Holland had become after much longer time. He was not voted for due to love anyway, but to protest against the other parties - something that the Germans systematically ignored from all beginning of the French "miracle" on, thinking Macron is a French heart affair. He is not, and never was.

The more he could get Germany to erode itself, the stronger France will become in relative strength, because by own economic strength it cannot take over from Germany, economically and financially it is too weak. In the end - that has always been state reason in Paris - the EU has to be dominated by Paris. Only Germans can be stupid enough to accept that as "cooperation and powersharing". All others call it "getting pulled over the table."

And Merkel? As I see it, she is a thing of the past. Many media over here have commented on her still lasting reality denial and how hilarious she is to imply that nothing has happened and that she can carry on just like before, as if nothign happened. She has insisted again on that she sees no reaosn why anything in her policies shoulkd be chnaged, and that she likes how it is and loves to get to work on this great new task of forming the new government. The surreal comments by her that I have already commented on earlier, really has been taken note of, and sunk deep in over here, many newspaper in one way or the other commented on it, in a mocking, even hostile tone. Two of the major national papers demand her to step back, indirectly. In her own party there are demands now as well that she has to go. The question is not if, but when, I think. Even if she lasts to see a new coalition government formed up, she will not last the whole 4 (5) years. Her days are counted. She is a lame duck, I think. If she gets that Jamaika coalition, she will be paralysed by the extremes in fragile balance in this coalition. Which is good. This damn witch has done more than enough damage.

No need to celebrate that as "democracy now makes her pay the price" - this does not come earlier than after 12 years in which she maximised all damage to Germans that was possible. Migration crisis. Energy turn. Letting Draghi do his thing. Saving climate, Europe, Euro, any whoi knowsd what else, all at Germany'S bill. Allowing the Target-2 saldi to climb to unbelievable ammounts instead of stopping the plundering of the Bundesbank by other countries (we are talking of 800+ billions in payments the Bundesbank made fopr other central banks, which the Germans weill never get paid out from the ECB, no matter those worthless Target-2 claims). Ending nuclear power after Fukushima (the industry now got claim confirmed by the Constitution High Court that they must be compensated, guess who pays for that additionally for this ill-designed energy turn...), and a blind support for the EU. I think all this is a nice example that the system does not work well. It does not ring the alarm and calls staff before the patient has died.

Imagine for Brexit London would pay 800 billions to Brussel. Eight hundred billion. Thats what the Germans willed to do in the Target 2 system. 2.6 times the state budget of Germany, gone, voluntarily handed out, willed to lose it and never seeing anything of it again.For this crime, this monstrous embezzlement of national wealth alone the whole government and the supportive Bundestag already should be lined up against the wall and being executed.

August · 09-27-17, 08:10 AM

Hey German Cousins, what's up with this?

STEED · 09-27-17, 08:18 AM

^

Skybird · 09-27-17, 10:54 AM

Yep, thats Germany today, the snippet August quotes in that minivideo unfortunately is VERY representative for the Zeitgeist here in Germany, absolutely. In speeches on TV, president's or chancellor's news years adresses and so forth, you always see the EU flag in front, and the German flag put behind it, covered by it.

An old joke over here holds it that Merkel just executes Erich Honnecker's late revenge against the "BRD" (=FRG).

09-26-17, 02:37 AM	#409
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,806 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Typical of Merkel, that she has learned nothing from this election. She sees nothing wrong with "her" politics, and no need or will to change anything. She gets a slap in the face and pretends it is a victory, just because there can be no government without her and those pesky 30 percent. She will not be the next chancellor, if she even makes it to the next regular elections at all. It is not entirely her fault. Legislative and law-making have become a joke. Big companies write laws and make "proposals", and politicians with almost no education in that matter sign them, for the lack of knowledge, and for having no own independent experts to judge. The people are not backed by politicians, there is no shield against greed and egomanic self-interest of big business. Maybe there never was, but now even the façade is gone. Speaking of this, and how what we call "democracy" (the west does not have real democracy, never had) will develop, it is widely discussed which system will replace it. In the past, no governing system has survived a century. What we have now is roughly a hundred years old. It will most probably not survive the next 20 years. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 09-26-17 at 07:21 AM.*

09-26-17, 05:12 AM	#410
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,080 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^Well put and pretty much my estimation of the UK as well. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

09-26-17, 05:54 AM	#411
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	A German writer reminds us today that after 2 years of "Wir schaffen das!"-policy the CDU has lost every fourth voter, most of them to the AfD. There also has been a substantial drain in party memberships. Catfish is right, and I too said it before: Merkel has learned nothing. The arrogance of those in power. They cannot imagine that somebody does not like their self-imposed shine. And if it dawns on them on some rare occasions, they snap and say "Then this is no longer my country" (quoting Merkel). The CDU has a real dilemma there. They must get rid of Merkel, this is essential. But many Germans voted right to get Merkel. Merkel herself used the past decade to systematically kill any rival and personell alternative to her, so that there is nobody in sight in the CDu who could replace Merkel. And the FDP, that is needed? For four years they have been out of the Budnestag. Most of those they now send into it, have no experience with that kind of work and responsiblity. The majority of FDP backseater would prefer to not end up in government already, but to use the four years in opposition to merely "arrive" again in parliamentary work. Analysis shows that most peop,e who voted for FDP, did so by quick decision, firing form the hip so to speak, not due to real cinviction and sympathy. These will look very closely what the FDP is doing, and if they see that the FDP is now allowing to get plowed under or to chnage its earlir statements on certain things related to the EU and the Euro, then the FDP could easily lose access to the Bundestag in four (five) years again when voters again run away. A coalition between Greens, FDP, CDU and CSU, is anything but certain right now. Maybe it even is not very likely. The younger party members of the Greens by overwhelming majority refuse that coalition. And the CSU can no longer afford to just trail Merkel's policies. New elections are absolutely possible. And then the AfD probably gains even more votes, while the FDP possibly (they got many new party members since Sunday, they said yesterday, several thousand). The AfD will live by keeping the divisions between itself and the others alive. According behavior will need to be expected from the AfD. Constructive interests? Dont bet on it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-26-17, 09:14 AM	#414
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yesterday I wrote about that Merkel quiote and how she weaseled around admitting her responsiblity. (post #410). I am obviously not the only one who has noted that. In German: http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2017/09...hp_ref=germany Its the Twilight of Merkel. Winner of the election: Putin. If Merkels falls, he has gotten what he wanted most: a paralysed Germany, the AfD in influential position ready to keep the media busy, and a leader-free and weak EU that is not able to oppose Russia seriously. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-26-17, 01:23 PM	#415
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Even although one could have known what Macronman would say in his speech on the state of the EU, that he would demand more super state powers, more centralization and with that: totalitarianism, more planned economy, that he would demand a transfer union (although avoiding to call it that, of course) and an automatic income generation for an ever growing EU bureaucracy by imposing new taxes in the peopel that will be directly collected by the EU - to hear it in explicit words nevertheless is a shock, kind of. Listening to it one really could become thankful for the German voting result that makes it very unlikely that things will go the way Macron wants them to go. If some people still argue that the EU doe snto want to be a super state - Macronman, the grand French visionary for more centralism and government planning everything, has proven them wrong today, and gave evidencer that this is exactly what he and many others in the EU indeed want. Its not a restart for a better EU. Its a nightmare that he described, with all my concerns and worries coming true. What he said today, in my ears is a long list of threats and intimidations. This madness must be stopped. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-26-17, 07:44 PM	#417
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	"To reform" is tricky word to translate, it is French for more centralization, stronger state, own tax raising, communising of national debts, building paper tigers and parallel military structures to already now underfunded NATO, Brussel gaining the say on national economic policy, national labour policy, national social policy, and the net paying countries, namely Germany, having to pay for most of all this, while giving advise to net receiving countries to perform intentionally worse in state managemet to gain in inefficiency and so getting more claim for transfer payments and reducing their financial obligations even more. That is Macronism. It is meant to give the man a bright shine. In France Macron after shoprt time already is far more unpopular than Holland had become after much longer time. He was not voted for due to love anyway, but to protest against the other parties - something that the Germans systematically ignored from all beginning of the French "miracle" on, thinking Macron is a French heart affair. He is not, and never was. The more he could get Germany to erode itself, the stronger France will become in relative strength, because by own economic strength it cannot take over from Germany, economically and financially it is too weak. In the end - that has always been state reason in Paris - the EU has to be dominated by Paris. Only Germans can be stupid enough to accept that as "cooperation and powersharing". All others call it "getting pulled over the table." And Merkel? As I see it, she is a thing of the past. Many media over here have commented on her still lasting reality denial and how hilarious she is to imply that nothing has happened and that she can carry on just like before, as if nothign happened. She has insisted again on that she sees no reaosn why anything in her policies shoulkd be chnaged, and that she likes how it is and loves to get to work on this great new task of forming the new government. The surreal comments by her that I have already commented on earlier, really has been taken note of, and sunk deep in over here, many newspaper in one way or the other commented on it, in a mocking, even hostile tone. Two of the major national papers demand her to step back, indirectly. In her own party there are demands now as well that she has to go. The question is not if, but when, I think. Even if she lasts to see a new coalition government formed up, she will not last the whole 4 (5) years. Her days are counted. She is a lame duck, I think. If she gets that Jamaika coalition, she will be paralysed by the extremes in fragile balance in this coalition. Which is good. This damn witch has done more than enough damage. No need to celebrate that as "democracy now makes her pay the price" - this does not come earlier than after 12 years in which she maximised all damage to Germans that was possible. Migration crisis. Energy turn. Letting Draghi do his thing. Saving climate, Europe, Euro, any whoi knowsd what else, all at Germany'S bill. Allowing the Target-2 saldi to climb to unbelievable ammounts instead of stopping the plundering of the Bundesbank by other countries (we are talking of 800+ billions in payments the Bundesbank made fopr other central banks, which the Germans weill never get paid out from the ECB, no matter those worthless Target-2 claims). Ending nuclear power after Fukushima (the industry now got claim confirmed by the Constitution High Court that they must be compensated, guess who pays for that additionally for this ill-designed energy turn...), and a blind support for the EU. I think all this is a nice example that the system does not work well. It does not ring the alarm and calls staff before the patient has died. Imagine for Brexit London would pay 800 billions to Brussel. Eight hundred billion. Thats what the Germans willed to do in the Target 2 system. 2.6 times the state budget of Germany, gone, voluntarily handed out, willed to lose it and never seeing anything of it again.For this crime, this monstrous embezzlement of national wealth alone the whole government and the supportive Bundestag already should be lined up against the wall and being executed. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-27-17, 08:10 AM	#418
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,233 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hey German Cousins, what's up with this? __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

09-27-17, 08:18 AM	#419
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	^ __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

09-27-17, 10:54 AM	#420
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yep, thats Germany today, the snippet August quotes in that minivideo unfortunately is VERY representative for the Zeitgeist here in Germany, absolutely. In speeches on TV, president's or chancellor's news years adresses and so forth, you always see the EU flag in front, and the German flag put behind it, covered by it. An old joke over here holds it that Merkel just executes Erich Honnecker's late revenge against the "BRD" (=FRG). __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.