If you can't add 3D models yet, then why rush the mod out?

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by cj95

From my understanding the no-3d models was a design decision by the devs.

Obviously the ability to add models exists (otherwise the devs wouldn't have added stuff) but that's its somehow encrypted or encoded to not allow 3rd party models.

Im no programmer but I don't buy the line that the engine itself is at fault.

(But what do I know)


..(I also am holding off using mods until we get proper models...If it acts like a Gato and looks like a Ruskie....ummm...sorry..Lost my immersion)

To the best of my knowledge they didn't deliberately obfuscate the game to prevent this, its more or less a trade-off / consequence for how things were done.

I.E. it was more advantageous for them to use Unity and live with the detractors than it was to go an alternate route.

[cj95]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

To the best of my knowledge they didn't deliberately obfuscate the game to prevent this, its more or less a trade-off / consequence for how things were done.

I.E. it was more advantageous for them to use Unity and live with the detractors than it was to go an alternate route.

??? Wait....if the engine prevents adding models...then how did they add models to begin with? Did they make all the 3d stuff for the game and all of the sudden forget how to do it?

Again, I'm no programmer but that doesn't make sense to my tiny brain. If it was possible to add models in the first place, then it should still be possible unless of course the devs are using some program that modders do not have access to, or.... chose to encrypt stuff so as to add DLC later.

(which Im totally cool with BTW....I'd pay for some nice diesels and NATO nukes)

Anyway...not my field...better shut up.

[Decho]

Originally Posted by cj95

??? Wait....if the engine prevents adding models...then how did they add models to begin with? Did they make all the 3d stuff for the game and all of the sudden forget how to do it?

Again, I'm no programmer but that doesn't make sense to my tiny brain. If it was possible to add models in the first place, then it should still be possible unless of course the devs are using some program that modders do not have access to, or.... chose to encrypt stuff so as to add DLC later.

(which Im totally cool with BTW....I'd pay for some nice diesels and NATO nukes)

Anyway...not my field...better shut up.

Basically the devs can add models because they have the unpackaged Unity project file, which contains all of the source code and models and everything which is in the game. When they package a build of the game Unity turns this all into neat files which can't really be modded. So the only way for them to let us add 3d models would involve them giving us the full source code of the game which wouldn't be a particularly sound business decision.

So yeah basically they have access to stuff that modders don't, but they also can't really give it out, even if they wanted to allow modders to add 3d models.

They could quite easily have folded in all of the ship specs and mission files into the packaged unity files, so they have actually done modders a service by having that type of thing so accessible. Note also that it is possible to set up a Unity game in such a way that 3d models are kept outside the packaged files, but this involves quite a lot of extra work.

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by Decho

Basically the devs can add models because they have the unpackaged Unity project file, which contains all of the source code and models and everything which is in the game. When they package a build of the game Unity turns this all into neat files which can't really be modded. So the only way for them to let us add 3d models would involve them giving us the full source code of the game which wouldn't be a particularly sound business decision.

So yeah basically they have access to stuff that modders don't, but they also can't really give it out, even if they wanted to allow modders to add 3d models.

They could quite easily have folded in all of the ship specs and mission files into the packaged unity files, so they have actually done modders a service by having that type of thing so accessible. Note also that it is possible to set up a Unity game in such a way that 3d models are kept outside the packaged files, but this involves quite a lot of extra work.

Perfect explanation, thanks

[cj95]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

Perfect explanation, thanks

Ditto on this. Appreciate it.

Again for the record, I fully support the DEVS in their plans for this area. The gave us a pretty good amount of subs in the base game and I wouldn't mind paying for some variety down the road.

Like it or not DLC is pretty much here to stay.



RE: A Beer with Neal:

Never had the pleasure sorry to say. I seem to recall multiple years ago I was supposed to meet up with him and a few other Subsim guys back when I was still helping with tours on the USS Texas, but I think I got reassigned to help another group so never met them. (Memory is fuzzy)

[longface]

Also not a programmer, but would it be possible for our community of awesome modders to create models in Unity and submit them to the devs somehow? Or is that impractical/impossible?

[CaptainCruise]

Originally Posted by cj95

??? Wait....if the engine prevents adding models...then how did they add models to begin with? Did they make all the 3d stuff for the game and all of the sudden forget how to do it?

Again, I'm no programmer but that doesn't make sense to my tiny brain. If it was possible to add models in the first place, then it should still be possible unless of course the devs are using some program that modders do not have access to, or.... chose to encrypt stuff so as to add DLC later.

(which Im totally cool with BTW....I'd pay for some nice diesels and NATO nukes)

Anyway...not my field...better shut up.

Maybe you hit on it....they may plan to release new 3D model platforms in the future as part of a DLC plan to make a few $$$. Wouldn't be the first time this was done. I'd also probably buy something.

I also play World of Warships and World of Tanks and EVERYTHING is DLC!!! Gets crazy if your not careful.

I see you live in Texas. Ever get to have a beer with the Onkel Neal? I love that big 'ole redneck hillbilly. Known him quite a few years now and he does so much for SUBSIM and all of us.

[Julhelm]

Basically the issue is that there is no way to import models or rgba textures the way Unity is set up. To allow it, we would have to write our own custom mesh and texture importer.

[The Bandit]

I appreciate your kind words but my skills as a "modder" are greatly exaggerated. "Text editor and avid user of Wikipedia" pretty much sums up most of goes into my mod. As far as trade and compensation from the devs / publisher while on the surface it sounds like a good idea it would likely open up so many cans of worms for them its not something I'd expect anybody to entertain.

That being said though, I'd like to think that this sort of thing serves itself, I put something together that I can have fun playing with and maybe spark a few ideas. Not going to be so bold as to claim that people are buying the game because of the work I've done, but you have to wonder how many sales happened because people saw Captain Jive Turkey flying around the Norwegian Sea in an Alfa the other day. Again this sort of thing serves itself here because each new purchase brings the game that much closer to DLC viability and continued development.

I'm loath to speak for them but if I had to guess I'd say that Cold Waters has probably had a meteoric rise and smashed sales projections and the like, but again no small part of that is the devs having foresight to make the game very modder friendly to grow this community around it.

[SeaCadt07]

More subs! This seems like a no brainer for DLC so I suspect it will come sooner or later. The base game as a platform is sound, even though I know they are tweaking the ai and stuff

[CaptainCruise]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

I appreciate your kind words but my skills as a "modder" are greatly exaggerated. "Text editor and avid user of Wikipedia" pretty much sums up most of goes into my mod. As far as trade and compensation from the devs / publisher while on the surface it sounds like a good idea it would likely open up so many cans of worms for them its not something I'd expect anybody to entertain.

That being said though, I'd like to think that this sort of thing serves itself, I put something together that I can have fun playing with and maybe spark a few ideas. Not going to be so bold as to claim that people are buying the game because of the work I've done, but you have to wonder how many sales happened because people saw Captain Jive Turkey flying around the Norwegian Sea in an Alfa the other day. Again this sort of thing serves itself here because each new purchase brings the game that much closer to DLC viability and continued development.

I'm loath to speak for them but if I had to guess I'd say that Cold Waters has probably had a meteoric rise and smashed sales projections and the like, but again no small part of that is the devs having foresight to make the game very modder friendly to grow this community around it.

I think I saw that Jive Turkey vid on YouTube. Great stuff. I'm a big fan of Mr. Jingles!!!


Well said. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if you were right on the money about Cold Waters sales above the Devs predictions and a lot of that having to do with the mods that come from the community. Look what happened with SH5 I think it was. The game was broke-ass dead and they released a total clunker, but the mods teams got to work on it and fixed so many issues and improved gameplay b leaps and bounds. No one was buying the game as it was released. The SUBSIM forums were alive with players who wouldn't buy he game as it was and waited until it could be improved. I know I was one of them who waited over a year I think. Regardless of what happens, things are better than they may have been. All the interest and mods we bring to this game will only benefit it in the long run.

Now I need to go find a Jingles or J. Turk vid on how to use VLS with Soviet player ships!!! Was playing the Oscar and found my target, tried to fire VLS but got a could not fire message. Couldn't figure out how to shoot VLS, and had no option but to scrap the game. They found me while I wasn't paying attention and ate 6 torps. Ack!!

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

I think I saw that Jive Turkey vid on YouTube. Great stuff. I'm a big fan of Mr. Jingles!!!


Well said. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if you were right on the money about Cold Waters sales above the Devs predictions and a lot of that having to do with the mods that come from the community. Look what happened with SH5 I think it was. The game was broke-ass dead and they released a total clunker, but the mods teams got to work on it and fixed so many issues and improved gameplay b leaps and bounds. No one was buying the game as it was released. The SUBSIM forums were alive with players who wouldn't buy he game as it was and waited until it could be improved. I know I was one of them who waited over a year I think. Regardless of what happens, things are better than they may have been. All the interest and mods we bring to this game will only benefit it in the long run.

Now I need to go find a Jingles or J. Turk vid on how to use VLS with Soviet player ships!!! Was playing the Oscar and found my target, tried to fire VLS but got a could not fire message. Couldn't figure out how to shoot VLS, and had no option but to scrap the game. They found me while I wasn't paying attention and ate 6 torps. Ack!!

JT just had an Oscar out yesterday morning IIRC, go check his latest stuff on youtube.

[CaptainCruise]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Basically the issue is that there is no way to import models or rgba textures the way Unity is set up. To allow it, we would have to write our own custom mesh and texture importer.

Hi Julhelm. Thank you for the reply. I'm sorry, I didn't realize at first you are a Cold Waters Dev. While rereading the thread I noticed your avatar.

I understand what you're saying about how Unity is currently set up and that it's not possible to import 3rd party models. I'm not a modder or computer programmer so maybe what I'm gonna say is off the wall, but is there any possibility maybe sometime in the future a dev kit can be developed for purchase that would allow 3rd party modders the ability to design new 3D models and import them into the game? I apologize if what I'm asking is ridiculous or just completely off the wall. Like I said, I'm not a programmer so I have no idea what would be involved, other than a lot of hard work I'm sure. If not a Dev kit, is it possible we may see new models in the future as DLC?
Cold Waters seems to have struck a chord here, and it seems like many members of SUBSIM have purchased the game or plan to. The mod teams have already uploaded quite a few mods in a short period of time, and already players want more. (I know, we're never satisfied...) Any insight you're allowed to talk about as to the future of Cold Waters would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Tom "CC"

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

...but is there any possibility maybe sometime in the future a dev kit can be developed for purchase that would allow 3rd party modders the ability to design new 3D models and import them into the game?

I think there's an untapped market there. Not for Cold Waters specifically but in general. Many games support modding and some games are supported by modding, but outside of the Bethesda RPGs developers rarely, if ever, build professional tools for modding their games. I imagine that's because such tools are made at a loss because they're provided for free and the predicted increase in sales typically won't justify that loss but if they were sold separately for a price people could afford they may be able to pay for the development themselves.

[Izrid]

I posted something similar and got chewed out for it =/