Isn't the TMA a little too perfect?

Destex · 07-14-17, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

Thanks. I get your point now

BTW, the TMA in Fast Attack is very similar to DW except you have separate stations for plot where you move the "speed ruler" on the map and the fire control station where you manipulate the Range, Course and Speed to stack the "contact dots" (forgive me for using my own names for these things) in a vertical line.

Thanks for the info, and no worries, I struggle with translation here as I'm not a native English speaker, I bet I use the wrong terms myself

It's very much possible that the TMA model in FA is great, but the manual just explains it wrong. In fact, I pretty much believe this is the case.

stormrider_sp · 07-14-17, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destex

Thanks for the info, and no worries, I struggle with translation here as I'm not a native English speaker, I bet I use the wrong terms myself

It's very much possible that the TMA model in FA is great, but the manual just explains it wrong. In fact, I pretty much believe this is the case.

The strange thing about it all, is that the manual was intended to serve as a training manual for the SSN Louisville Library.

Probably its me, but maybe you're missing the point of what the manual suggests. It's obvious that if both emitter and receiver are moving, it wouldn't make sense to change course in order to triangulate the target's position, but as far as I understand it, it's not what it's suggesting either. As I understand, it suggests to change course every 10-12min intervals in order to verify the alignment of the dots with the reference line in Fire Control Console so as to validate the solution.

Julhelm · 07-14-17, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormrider_sp

The strange thing about it all, is that the manual was intended to serve as a training manual for the SSN Louisville Library.

LOL

shipkiller1 · 07-14-17, 01:01 PM

The second picture, the Fire Control Display is called the "Bearing Difference Plot"

That manual was written by Sierra Games for the game.

Destex · 07-14-17, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormrider_sp

As I understand, it suggests to change course every 10-12min intervals in order to verify the alignment of the dots with the reference line in Fire Control Console so as to validate the solution.

As I said you (and the manual) are correct when saying TMA maneuvers are essential to narrow down the possible solutions for the target.
However, the reason why ownship manuevers are required is explained in the following way:

Quote:

An accurate firing solution is not affected by your change in course, as your sensors detect the track from the anticipated bearing

And that is, completely wrong.

MBot · 07-14-17, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destex

And that is, completely wrong.

I am not sure why you think this is wrong. This statement sounds absolutely correct to me.

shipkiller1 · 07-14-17, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBot

I am not sure why you think this is wrong. This statement sounds absolutely correct to me.

Because in the real world of passive TMA (without any range data) you cannot determine the course, range and speed of a contact without (driving) changing the bearing rate.

TMA is a geometry problem. You can find the third leg of a triangle if you know the other two legs. In passive TMA, you are starting out with only one leg of the triangle.

FPSchazly · 07-14-17, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

Because in the real world of passive TMA (without any range data) you cannot determine the course, range and speed of a contact without (driving) changing the bearing rate.

TMA is a geometry problem. You can find the third leg of a triangle if you know the other two legs. In passive TMA, you are starting out with only one leg of the triangle.

Wow, I never thought about it that way

Cheers!

MBot · 07-14-17, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

Because in the real world of passive TMA (without any range data) you cannot determine the course, range and speed of a contact without (driving) changing the bearing rate.

TMA is a geometry problem. You can find the third leg of a triangle if you know the other two legs. In passive TMA, you are starting out with only one leg of the triangle.

Right, but what is wrong about the statement?

Quote:

An accurate firing solution is not affected by your change in course, as your sensors detect the track from the anticipated bearing

Changing your course changes the bearing rate. If the target still lines up with the anticipated bearing from your solution, the solution is good. If the target moves away from the bearing anticipated by the solution, the solution was incorrect. That is what the statement says, and isn't that correct?

shipkiller1 · 07-14-17, 06:28 PM

You could interpret it that way, but it keeping with the flavor of the entire text, it is more likely interpreted the other way.

07-14-17, 01:01 PM	#4
shipkiller1 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 136 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The second picture, the Fire Control Display is called the "Bearing Difference Plot" That manual was written by Sierra Games for the game.

07-14-17, 06:28 PM	#10
shipkiller1 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 136 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You could interpret it that way, but it keeping with the flavor of the entire text, it is more likely interpreted the other way.