Soviet subs tactics

[Delgard]

Thank-you, good write-up. Yeah, between Toshiba and John Walker, it was a leap forward.

[jmr]

I'm really surprised John Walker didn't get the death penalty. Toshiba-Kongsberg and the Walker spy ring were huge boons for the Soviet navy.

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by jmr

I'm really surprised John Walker didn't get the death penalty. Toshiba-Kongsberg and the Walker spy ring were huge boons for the Soviet navy.

Because he likely did a plea bargain dont forget his son who was on a carrier was also spying and he worked in cryptography :O

The damage they did to the UK and USA is immense a lot of technology used in the USA is shared between the UK and USA so it also affected the Royal Navy too

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Because he likely did a plea bargain dont forget his son who was on a carrier was also spying and he worked in cryptography :O

The damage they did to the UK and USA is immense a lot of technology used in the USA is shared between the UK and USA so it also affected the Royal Navy too

There are two sides to it though, not trying to stick up for old Johnny Walker Red but I remember on a documentary. Older Russian guy (possibly an Admiral) talked about how astounding it was to learn, on one hand how superior and radical the advantage was that the Americans had in terms of technology, and on the other hand the realization despite these advantages they had not decided to wage war from their position of strength which went against all Soviet propaganda of the west being hell-bent on the destruction of the Soviet Union and is people, no matter what.

The whole gist of it was, being so plugged into what the US Navy was saying / doing / thinking (thanks to Walker of course) convinced some of these Soviet higher-up types that these Americans, in fact, were not so eager to begin a third-world war, because had they been they would have already!

IIRC the program had something to do with the context of Able Archer 83, I'll have to dig through the DVR and see if I can find it again.

[caine007]

Awesome post Kapitan, thanks.

I've always been curious if the super-cavitating Shkval torpedo was a tactical game changer or not. Any thoughts?

At first I was like, "This thing is instant death" but after thinking about it a bit it seems like it's almost a step backwards having no real control or guidance?

300km/h is pretty nuts though and I guess it's not that hard guessing where a Supercarrier will be in the next few minutes but hitting a sub seems harder.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by caine007

Awesome post Kapitan, thanks.

I've always been curious if the super-cavitating Shkval torpedo was a tactical game changer or not. Any thoughts?

At first I was like, "This thing is instant death" but after thinking about it a bit it seems like it's almost a step backwards having no real control or guidance?

300km/h is pretty nuts though and I guess it's not that hard guessing where a Supercarrier will be in the next few minutes but hitting a sub seems harder.

I definitely get the impression it's meant as a hard kill counter-measure (with or without nuclear weapons) or you strap a nuke to it, which makes it easier to hit a submarine. I've also seen someone mention that, with a nuclear warhead, it's meant to take out a boomer that is about to launch its missiles.

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by caine007

Awesome post Kapitan, thanks.

I've always been curious if the super-cavitating Shkval torpedo was a tactical game changer or not. Any thoughts?

At first I was like, "This thing is instant death" but after thinking about it a bit it seems like it's almost a step backwards having no real control or guidance?

300km/h is pretty nuts though and I guess it's not that hard guessing where a Supercarrier will be in the next few minutes but hitting a sub seems harder.

The VA-111 is designed for a specific purpose to carry a nuclear warhead to the centre of a carrier group and detonate, it doesnt need to make contact with any hull or even be near by to cause huge effect.

The Skhval (VA-111) is a very impressive weapon and until recently the only one of its type in the world, the Chinese have copied it as have the Iranians and the Germans also tried it out.

While the Torpedo is extremely fast giving a submarine or a ship little to no chance of evasive manoeuvres it does have a drawback a big one, it has limited range and it is a big weapon.



Now bear in mind this is 1970's technology the range of the first generation Skhval which is a straight running torpedo and cannot be direct once launched it has a range of only 5-6nm and a nuclear blast of 20kt would affect the firing submarine yet a conventional warhead if it was to far away from target would do little.

Skhval 2 the more up to date version which came about in the mid 1990's offers up a guidance system with a vectored thrust possibility as yet not confirmed this means it does have some guidance system on board which may explain its wieght increase from 2.6tons to just over 3tons.
Skhval 2 also has a better range but still not anywhere near a conventional torpedo like the MK48 or Stingray although its speed is still there, the range of the Skhval 2 is estimated by the west to be between 12 and 15nm.
less advanced versions are for sale on the open market hence why China and Iran have shown interest.



The nose cone is movable and creates a bubble of gas in which the torpedo flies through thus it has been stated that it does have a guidance system in place, plus its seen to have movable fins too.



The back end also lends to speculation that it is in fact guided, look at the 5 o clock position there is what looks like a multi pin socket for wire guidance which again leads us to review that this could be steerable.

To be honest the technology is not mature enough i dont think to be of real value it is a show weapon the reality is the conventional torpedoes like the MK48's have much longer legs plus they are coupled with a very very good sensor systems for data collection and analysis the chances of getting the Russian boat close enough to fire one of these at a western submarine is slim.

however against an unsuspecting CVBG in some where like the Persian Gulf this would be extremely effective especially if nuclear tipped or sent by a conventional submarine sitting on the bottom in a littoral area (and yes project 636 Kilo can fire these).

[Ansgar Burkhard]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

The VA-111 is designed for a specific purpose to carry a nuclear warhead to the centre of a carrier group and detonate, it doesnt need to make contact with any hull or even be near by to cause huge effect.

The Skhval (VA-111) is a very impressive weapon and until recently the only one of its type in the world, the Chinese have copied it as have the Iranians and the Germans also tried it out.

While the Torpedo is extremely fast giving a submarine or a ship little to no chance of evasive manoeuvres it does have a drawback a big one, it has limited range and it is a big weapon.



Now bear in mind this is 1970's technology the range of the first generation Skhval which is a straight running torpedo and cannot be direct once launched it has a range of only 5-6nm and a nuclear blast of 20kt would affect the firing submarine yet a conventional warhead if it was to far away from target would do little.

Skhval 2 the more up to date version which came about in the mid 1990's offers up a guidance system with a vectored thrust possibility as yet not confirmed this means it does have some guidance system on board which may explain its wieght increase from 2.6tons to just over 3tons.
Skhval 2 also has a better range but still not anywhere near a conventional torpedo like the MK48 or Stingray although its speed is still there, the range of the Skhval 2 is estimated by the west to be between 12 and 15nm.
less advanced versions are for sale on the open market hence why China and Iran have shown interest.



The nose cone is movable and creates a bubble of gas in which the torpedo flies through thus it has been stated that it does have a guidance system in place, plus its seen to have movable fins too.



The back end also lends to speculation that it is in fact guided, look at the 5 o clock position there is what looks like a multi pin socket for wire guidance which again leads us to review that this could be steerable.

To be honest the technology is not mature enough i dont think to be of real value it is a show weapon the reality is the conventional torpedoes like the MK48's have much longer legs plus they are coupled with a very very good sensor systems for data collection and analysis the chances of getting the Russian boat close enough to fire one of these at a western submarine is slim.

however against an unsuspecting CVBG in some where like the Persian Gulf this would be extremely effective especially if nuclear tipped or sent by a conventional submarine sitting on the bottom in a littoral area (and yes project 636 Kilo can fire these).

Or launched by a swarm of fast attack boats in the persian gulf against a carrier battlegroup.