FOTRS vs TMO?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Steiger

I used to play TMO and loved it - what's the deal with FOTRS and how do they compare?

TMO is a mod that is basically complete and has been for sometime. so feel its not fair to compare FOTRS is still being developed. However, FOTRS is on track to become THE mod for SH 4. The team is working hard and am seeing a lot of progress.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

However, FOTRS is on track to become THE mod for SH 4. The team is working hard and am seeing a lot of progress.

And that is our mission statement. We want to be the default mod for SH4. Before we can say that we have to get to v1.0 and then produce plugin mods so the player is in charge of their own game.

Especially important will be AI modes that allow beginners to play FOTRSU and progress the enemy AI as they gain skill. As great a mod as TMO is, a beginner just gets chewed up and spat out. Then they come back and wonder why we all think TMO is so great. That's a tragedy the FOTRSU team seeks to avoid.

Pssst! Don't tell Bubblehead, but we're going to lean on him for plugins later.

[RampantParanoia]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

... We want to be the default mod for SH4...

Especially important will be AI modes that allow beginners to play FOTRSU and progress the enemy AI as they gain skill...

I’ve got to say, as a long time lurker I’ve followed FOTRSU with great interest. It’s really good to see how much work you guys are putting into not only the mod but fixing age old (and newly discovered!) bugs in the base game as well. I also love your approach of the base mod and compatible plugins, an absolute stroke of genius!

FOTRSU looks to be a beautiful mod, but I’m really glad to see that you’re planning on including less hard AI. I’m a bit of a wimp when it comes to that, but I don’t want to miss out on all the great content your team are creating just because I can’t handle the escorts :P

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by RampantParanoia

I’ve got to say, as a long time lurker I’ve followed FOTRSU with great interest. It’s really good to see how much work you guys are putting into not only the mod but fixing age old (and newly discovered!) bugs in the base game as well. I also love your approach of the base mod and compatible plugins, an absolute stroke of genius!

FOTRSU looks to be a beautiful mod, but I’m really glad to see that you’re planning on including less hard AI. I’m a bit of a wimp when it comes to that, but I don’t want to miss out on all the great content your team are creating just because I can’t handle the escorts :P

If you're not enjoying the game then it's the modders' fault! We're going to do some things in FOTRSU that all of us will both love and hate.

We'll have an OTC (probably under a different name) mod where you have a perfect recognition manual with all correct measurements in it and every ship on the ocean represented. If you miss, it will be your fault unless you get a faulty torpedo. I hate this one. Many wouldn't play SH4 without it. We'll have it. I don't have the right to tell you how to play your game.

We'll have probably four different levels of enemy AI, from easy to deadlier than we have now. New players deserve to be able to see all the visual and sound improvements in FOTRSU but right now they can't survive. That's not right and we'll fix it.

Different keyboard layouts, boat skins, plotting grids, even some crazy unrealistic stuff I'm known for, all will be available as Certified FOTRSU Plugin Mods. Roll your own supermod. Coming soon to a computer near you!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

If you're not enjoying the game then it's the modders' fault! We're going to do some things in FOTRSU that all of us will both love and hate.

We'll have an OTC (probably under a different name) mod where you have a perfect recognition manual with all correct measurements in it and every ship on the ocean represented. If you miss, it will be your fault unless you get a faulty torpedo. I hate this one. Many wouldn't play SH4 without it. We'll have it. I don't have the right to tell you how to play your game.

We'll have probably four different levels of enemy AI, from easy to deadlier than we have now. New players deserve to be able to see all the visual and sound improvements in FOTRSU but right now they can't survive. That's not right and we'll fix it.

Different keyboard layouts, boat skins, plotting grids, even some crazy unrealistic stuff I'm known for, all will be available as Certified FOTRSU Plugin Mods. Roll your own supermod. Coming soon to a computer near you!

Curious. What are you guys doing about depth charges? Changing the damage system? For me, the problem was not so much the AI being set too high in TMO. Ducimus once put it well, attacking escorted ships without getting depth charged is anticlimatic and boring.

The problem as I see it is how the damage model worked with the depth charges.Stock charges were way too powerful (TMO as well) and the damage model with only max hit points for TMO had the hull collapsing rather easily when these subs hulls were tough and could take a real beating even when much of equipment was in shambles. Billfish, Seahorse, Salmon, Halibut, are among boats that come to mind.

I tried to remedy it with my depth charge mod and it helped a lot. Now I've adjusted the sub damage model. Based on travellers model but not tank like. Hull is stronger. Combined with my depth charge mod, sub takes beating, equipment takes damage. When lost its because you took enough damage to key systems you are overhwhelmed and sink below crush depth. Sub will sink from surface if flooding. Since we have no abandon ship option and I hate the gamey special abilities "mr fix it" who repair any damaged item. I made it where things leave player stranded such as rudder as not vulnerable.

During recent testing I let a Type C CD vessel set to Veteran skill depth charge me at 350 feet. I was not evading it was a test. My boat was in shambles. Scopes smashed, radar smashed, all but 2 torpedo tubes smashed, pumps damaged, compressor damaged, aft batteries damaged soem flooding but not instant massive flooding. Dec guns and TBT smashed.I did take Balao class boat was in to 600 feet and slipped away, made it back to port. Now obviously in a non test career wont just sit there and let them get a fix , but it was a nice test.

I'll release my mod for this soon, just making some key adjustments.


I believe tough AI, with proper depth charge settings, and damage model can solve issues. I'm working on it for early war TMO RSRD now. I mean I find early war just boring in the sim since its sinking a lot of singles or when do find convoys and task forces their escorts dont have a clue lol. Perfect example was even in oct 43 in calm seas, i sunk two tankers. The aux sub chaser and momi patrol boat dropped a few charges but never came close. I had a Balao and went to 400 feet, got away with ease. Japanese were not great at ASW early on but they were not that bad lol.

Some reason the aux subchaser did not have active sonar, so I added it. Momi PB had it but it was lackluster. Likely were set to "competent" instead of veteran as many escorts in RSRD are during this time frame.

Once thing I've had to go back and change is the fleet destroyers. Many of them were neutered in RSRD. They didnt have the sensors for ASW even later. Some like Asashio had one DC rack, one empty. prevented from laying down nice patterns.

Part of my upgrade is upping escorts to veteran in 43-45 and a few to elite, making sure their sensor packages are correct for time period and have depth charges when and where they should. 31 and 42 some at left at competent some at vet. With my sim.cfg set for early war, it improves their performance but keeps its accurate for early war. So far I have all the DD's complete and they are once again, an actual threat.

I like your team's approach though Trying to make it to suit a wide audience. Not tell anyone how to play their sim.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

We'll have an OTC (probably under a different name) mod where you have a perfect recognition manual with all correct measurements in it and every ship on the ocean represented. If you miss, it will be your fault unless you get a faulty torpedo. I hate this one. Many wouldn't play SH4 without it. We'll have it. I don't have the right to tell you how to play your game.

My friend RR doesn't understand the issue of having proper working equipment compared to his "fog of war" perspective that all play should be guesswork.

If we left it up to him, his idea of realistic game play would be for us all to follow the "O'Kane" system of firing, where you get as close as you can to a target, fire at a 90 degree AoB, and expect to get hits. Lee Harvey Oswald was killed with a gut shot to the ribs on TV.....anyone can do that!

I have no tolerance for those that persist in believing a Stadimeter found range should be missing accurate range by 50%....half of what it should be. It's as if you're telling us the U.S. Military sent out rifles that fired 2 feet to the right.......just go ahead and use them........its realistic behavior! Even the first grunt firing the weapon would have figured out what to do with his inaccurate weapon, besides turning it onto the dope that handed it to him!

Double R is going to say that having a realistic measurement in the Recognition Manual is hogwash.....should never be there. The "fog of war" should prevail as the way to get a firing solution. Just guess at it, knowing the figures are wrong, and be happy with the outcome.

I can't disagree more! No Captain would have relied on knowing his figures are inaccurate and accepted the inaccurate results. He would have done something about it on his first patrol, due to nothing more than realizing his error in inaccurate measurement was just as bad as a Compass reading South when it should read East.

That's been my stand for years with this game......funny, no one complained about the nuts on, to the exact yard, figures you get when using the Sonar to give found range. But, it's breaking some "ethical rule" when a Stadimeter reading might produce a close estimate range figure?

[Berserker]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

TMO is a mod that is basically complete and has been for sometime. so feel its not fair to compare FOTRS is still being developed. However, FOTRS is on track to become THE mod for SH 4. The team is working hard and am seeing a lot of progress.

I have tried forts 1.46 until i can feel safe diving below 250 ft and a warning line is placed on the depth gauge, showing that going below that line will cause hull damage, it's not for me...Another thing to figure out is where did my time compression go?? It now tops out at 4096 when it used to go well above that and thats after i removed the mod...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Berserker

I have tried forts 1.46 until i can feel safe diving below 250 ft and a warning line is placed on the depth gauge, showing that going below that line will cause hull damage, it's not for me...Another thing to figure out is where did my time compression go?? It now tops out at 4096 when it used to go well above that and thats after i removed the mod...

you do not want to set TC higher than 4096.
i have my max set to 1024.
too many issues when TC > 1024.
but, hey, it's free country. do what you want.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

you do not want to set TC higher than 4096.
i have my max set to 1024.
too many issues when TC > 1024.
but, hey, it's free country. do what you want.

Even I went into the main.cfg & docked the max TC, down to 512... but, that's just My own personal preference...

M. M.

[Berserker]

How do i set it back to normal??

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Berserker

How do i set it back to normal??

Best to dink about with the file in question, either before starting a career or, when you are in post & have NOT gone out on patrol, YET.

Can be found here:

SH4/FotRS/data/cfg

file you want to adjust with regards to time compression would be main.cfg

Adjust accordingly.

My settings:

[TIME COMPRESSION]
TimeStop=0
RealTime=1
LandProximity=128
CriticalDamage=1
CrewEfficiency=128;1
AirEnemyDetected=1
SoundEffects=128
CharacterAnim=64
EnemyDetected=1
RadioReport=1
Particles=64
PrayState=256
HunterState=256
3DRender=1024
Maximum=1024

M. M.