surface to air

foz · 06-23-17, 08:33 PM

I`m new to this , is there any way to knock out that Russian helicopter.
Weapons mod .
All in all this looks really good , reminds me of , and don`t ball me out
Tom Clancy SSN pc game .

Delgard · 06-23-17, 09:57 PM

I have heard of real-world talk of having a manpad easily deployed to the sail bridge. But having the sub so-exposed to begin with is not a good idea. I don't think CW does.

Maybe someone else has a better explanation.

cj95 · 06-24-17, 01:16 AM

I thought some older soviet subs had manpads attached to the periscope.

(Peri-pads?)

Again probably too exposed....

CowabungaKid89 · 07-01-17, 01:18 AM

Newer subs, at least the German type 212A/Italian Todaro class, can launch missiles with anti-air capabilities from the tubes; but in 1984, I guess we're stuck with legging it when a helicopter shows up.

Edit: Just FYI

"The Interactive Defence and Attack System for Submarines (IDAS) is a submarine-launched, lightweight, multi-role, fibre-optic guided missile system being developed for the German and other partner navies.This weapon is designed to provide improved self-defence and asymmetric warfare capabilities for submerged cruising submarines. It enables the submarines to engage threats from anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopters, small- and medium-sized surface vessels in covert operations, and pre-selected coastal targets. [...] A prototype of the IDAS missile system performed its maiden flight from an underwater test facility in Northern Germany in 2006. It was successfully launched from the German Navy's class 212A submarine in the Baltic Sea in 2008."

That's a loooooong way off from CW's time frame.

Edit 2: These missiles have also been tested on Norwegian subs; given the necessary electronics are on board, I guess they could be launched from any standard NATO 533 mm tube.

Aktungbby · 07-04-17, 09:31 AM

CowabungaKid89!

denis_469 · 07-04-17, 03:40 PM

Russian submarines have sams with launch from surface: http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-4-20-00000083-000-0-0#006

Have sams from 1975 year.

ETR3(SS) · 07-04-17, 04:34 PM

No offense, but referencing your own post on another page with no supporting information probably won't convince many. Also, surfacing to launch a SAM is suicide.

denis_469 · 07-04-17, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

No offense, but referencing your own post on another page with no supporting information probably won't convince many. Also, surfacing to launch a SAM is suicide.

I did not set myself the goal of convincing anyone. It's not necessary to prove anything clever, but fools are useless. And in fact since 1975, all Soviet, and now Russian submarines have up to 10 surface-to-air missiles with surface launch. And they work out their application. In Russia, everyone knows this. And this is not suicide, because of the acoustic coatings of boats, it is difficult to hit them with rockets. Therefore, the boat is always the first to shoot on airplanes.

ETR3(SS) · 07-04-17, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denis_469

I did not set myself the goal of convincing anyone. It's not necessary to prove anything clever, but fools are useless. And in fact since 1975, all Soviet, and now Russian submarines have up to 10 surface-to-air missiles with surface launch. And they work out their application. In Russia, everyone knows this. And this is not suicide, because of the acoustic coatings of boats, it is difficult to hit them with rockets. Therefore, the boat is always the first to shoot on airplanes.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150416...ow/rus/971.htm This references the SA-N-8, but still need to surface to launch it. A surfaced submarine, regardless of weaponry, can be easily found and then attacked.

Carthaginian · 07-04-17, 11:39 PM

Yeah... the Sovs have never been known for making the brightest decisions regarding "teh missulz fur e'rytingz."
Project 877 and 636.3 boats are among the most respected boats under the waves... but surfacing one to fire a MANPAD? If I was on that boat, the captain would be bleeding out of a .357" hole in the back of his head and our XO would have a very informal promotion ceremony. That is risking your boat and your crews' lives on a VERY small chance of success.

ikalugin · 07-05-17, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carthaginian

Yeah... the Sovs have never been known for making the brightest decisions regarding "teh missulz fur e'rytingz."
Project 877 and 636.3 boats are among the most respected boats under the waves... but surfacing one to fire a MANPAD? If I was on that boat, the captain would be bleeding out of a .357" hole in the back of his head and our XO would have a very informal promotion ceremony. That is risking your boat and your crews' lives on a VERY small chance of success.

MANPADS in this context have the same role as side arms for the crew.

ETR3(SS) · 07-05-17, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

MANPADS in this context have the same role as side arms for the crew.

As in, you were forced to surface and it's a defensive weapon? That would make more sense I would think.

Kat Tsun · 10-07-17, 11:25 AM

MANPADS on submarines are intended to protect them when they're doing this: http://www.ship-technology.com/uploa...z-convoy-l.jpg

They are not serious anti-helicopter weapons. They're more like anti-crop duster.

A contemporary anti-helicopter weapon for submarines (Ford SIAM) existed and was used to shoot down DASH drones in 1980-81 in captive launch tests. It would have been fired similar to a Harpoon or Tomahawk cruise missile, using a canister to reach the surface, and search for a target with an infrared seeker. It worked quite well, but the U.S. Navy didn't have the money for it at the time, so it sort of languished for a couple years until it died sometime in the mid '80s. This is the only practical anti-helicopter missile for submarines that could be in the game.

Another contemporary system would be the aforementioned periscope mounted missiles, which were carried by Soviet diesels for purposes of killing overly curious LAMPS. Periscope mounted missiles are slightly more serious than MANPADS, but only through the 1980s or so about, but the Soviets still made them for SSKs. The better solution would be an encapsulated missile like SIAM, since this wouldn't require the submarine to expose its periscope, but I guess the USSR really was a decade behind the West. Or maybe it was just contemporary with the Amphion's Blowpipe mast [i.e. from the 1970s]. India still has them on their Kilos and Russia probably does too.

Everything else was either dead as disco (SLAM) or not serious (MANPADS in the armory).

Gardiner.b · 10-07-17, 02:28 PM

DCNS has made a system for taking out ASW helos well submerged under water its attached to the mast

http://www.indiastrategic.in/image/DCNS2.jpg

edjcox · 10-23-17, 01:47 AM

There is an experimental tow pack that can be deployed that sets behind about 2500 yds that allows remoted fiber link periscope views, infrasound sonar and passive RX, ESM and AA launch. The array is useable to 12 knots max. The onboard noisemaker if activated can serve as decoy for 30 minutes autonomously. Beats using the Sail sensor systems and in conjunction provides highly accurate ranging using infrared lasers.

If cut loose the tow pack is recoverable within a limited time but will self sink and destruct vital items after a set time.

The game has all manner of innovations, yet to fielded.

06-23-17, 08:33 PM	#1
foz Soundman Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 143 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	surface to air I`m new to this , is there any way to knock out that Russian helicopter. Weapons mod . All in all this looks really good , reminds me of , and don`t ball me out Tom Clancy SSN pc game .

06-24-17, 01:16 AM	#3
cj95 Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 258 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 0	I thought some older soviet subs had manpads attached to the periscope. (Peri-pads?) Again probably too exposed.... __________________ . >> USS TEXAS BB-35 Restoration CrewMember <<

07-01-17, 01:18 AM	#4
CowabungaKid89 Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Newer subs, at least the German type 212A/Italian Todaro class, can launch missiles with anti-air capabilities from the tubes; but in 1984, I guess we're stuck with legging it when a helicopter shows up. Edit: Just FYI "The Interactive Defence and Attack System for Submarines (IDAS) is a submarine-launched, lightweight, multi-role, fibre-optic guided missile system being developed for the German and other partner navies.This weapon is designed to provide improved self-defence and asymmetric warfare capabilities for submerged cruising submarines. It enables the submarines to engage threats from anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopters, small- and medium-sized surface vessels in covert operations, and pre-selected coastal targets. [...] A prototype of the IDAS missile system performed its maiden flight from an underwater test facility in Northern Germany in 2006. It was successfully launched from the German Navy's class 212A submarine in the Baltic Sea in 2008." That's a loooooong way off from CW's time frame. Edit 2: These missiles have also been tested on Norwegian subs; given the necessary electronics are on board, I guess they could be launched from any standard NATO 533 mm tube. Last edited by CowabungaKid89; 07-01-17 at 04:31 AM.

07-04-17, 09:31 AM	#5
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,033 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome aboard! CowabungaKid89! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

07-04-17, 04:34 PM	#7
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	No offense, but referencing your own post on another page with no supporting information probably won't convince many. Also, surfacing to launch a SAM is suicide. __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

06-23-17, 09:57 PM	#2
Delgard Captain Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: AZ & DC Posts: 487 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	I have heard of real-world talk of having a manpad easily deployed to the sail bridge. But having the sub so-exposed to begin with is not a good idea. I don't think CW does. Maybe someone else has a better explanation.

07-04-17, 03:40 PM	#6
denis_469 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Russia Posts: 700 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	Russian submarines have sams with launch from surface: http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-4-20-00000083-000-0-0#006 Have sams from 1975 year.

07-04-17, 11:39 PM	#10
Carthaginian Loader Join Date: May 2012 Location: Daphne, Alabama, C.S.A. Posts: 83 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Surfaced Sub, Dead Sub Yeah... the Sovs have never been known for making the brightest decisions regarding "teh missulz fur e'rytingz." Project 877 and 636.3 boats are among the most respected boats under the waves... but surfacing one to fire a MANPAD? If I was on that boat, the captain would be bleeding out of a .357" hole in the back of his head and our XO would have a very informal promotion ceremony. That is risking your boat and your crews' lives on a VERY small chance of success.

10-07-17, 11:25 AM	#13
Kat Tsun Bilge Rat Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	MANPADS on submarines are intended to protect them when they're doing this: http://www.ship-technology.com/uploa...z-convoy-l.jpg They are not serious anti-helicopter weapons. They're more like anti-crop duster. A contemporary anti-helicopter weapon for submarines (Ford SIAM) existed and was used to shoot down DASH drones in 1980-81 in captive launch tests. It would have been fired similar to a Harpoon or Tomahawk cruise missile, using a canister to reach the surface, and search for a target with an infrared seeker. It worked quite well, but the U.S. Navy didn't have the money for it at the time, so it sort of languished for a couple years until it died sometime in the mid '80s. This is the only practical anti-helicopter missile for submarines that could be in the game. Another contemporary system would be the aforementioned periscope mounted missiles, which were carried by Soviet diesels for purposes of killing overly curious LAMPS. Periscope mounted missiles are slightly more serious than MANPADS, but only through the 1980s or so about, but the Soviets still made them for SSKs. The better solution would be an encapsulated missile like SIAM, since this wouldn't require the submarine to expose its periscope, but I guess the USSR really was a decade behind the West. Or maybe it was just contemporary with the Amphion's Blowpipe mast [i.e. from the 1970s]. India still has them on their Kilos and Russia probably does too. Everything else was either dead as disco (SLAM) or not serious (MANPADS in the armory).

10-07-17, 02:28 PM	#14
Gardiner.b Bilge Rat Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 1 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	It is in Real world thanks to DCNS DCNS has made a system for taking out ASW helos well submerged under water its attached to the mast http://www.indiastrategic.in/image/DCNS2.jpg

10-23-17, 01:47 AM	#15
edjcox Engineer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Shang Gri La Posts: 219 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Fiber Tow with AA There is an experimental tow pack that can be deployed that sets behind about 2500 yds that allows remoted fiber link periscope views, infrasound sonar and passive RX, ESM and AA launch. The array is useable to 12 knots max. The onboard noisemaker if activated can serve as decoy for 30 minutes autonomously. Beats using the Sail sensor systems and in conjunction provides highly accurate ranging using infrared lasers. If cut loose the tow pack is recoverable within a limited time but will self sink and destruct vital items after a set time. The game has all manner of innovations, yet to fielded. __________________ EJ Cox http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...jcox/usaCa.gif