Trying to be sneaky - Page 2

Nexus7 · 06-25-17, 05:26 PM

I think the TA is modelled as a chain of sensors, perhaps the more sensible in the latter part of it and perhaps not, I never bothered. OTOH when it's true that streaming 1/3 of it serves almost as well as streaming the whole would be an hint in this direction. If so, when the TA is say 1/3 below the layer and 2/3 above, in the reality I would mostly get signal from below (by say 90%?). If so yes, one better knows where the tail of is TA is

Wildcat · 06-27-17, 07:09 AM

I am curious to know if the TA going under the layer is actually modeled correctly or not?

I have a feeling that in the sim, the TA is actually just a straight rigid wire that pivots around the end of your frigate.

In the DW manual it states in the FFG TA section that even if the TA wire appears bent and is at XYZ depth, it is not being modeled in the sim.

I'm not really sure what's going on, this might require some multiplayer or custom mission sleuthing to figure out?

FPSchazly · 06-27-17, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7

I think the TA is modelled as a chain of sensors, perhaps the more sensible in the latter part of it and perhaps not, I never bothered. OTOH when it's true that streaming 1/3 of it serves almost as well as streaming the whole would be an hint in this direction. If so, when the TA is say 1/3 below the layer and 2/3 above, in the reality I would mostly get signal from below (by say 90%?). If so yes, one better knows where the tail of is TA is

AFAIK, the towed is just a sensor at the end of a cable. There are no sensors along the cable itself. The goal is to get the sensor as far as possible from the streaming object. That distance is about 1/4 to 1/3 deployment for US subs. Beyond that, it's diminishing returns, unless you're close to some surface clutter or something where extra length means more depth of the sensor away from wave action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I am curious to know if the TA going under the layer is actually modeled correctly or not?

I have a feeling that in the sim, the TA is actually just a straight rigid wire that pivots around the end of your frigate.

In the DW manual it states in the FFG TA section that even if the TA wire appears bent and is at XYZ depth, it is not being modeled in the sim.

I'm not really sure what's going on, this might require some multiplayer or custom mission sleuthing to figure out?

It is modeled correctly, at least for subs. I've watched my towed dip beneath the layer and see all surface contacts drop off, for example. Doesn't the FFG output the array depth?

06-27-17, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

AFAIK, the towed is just a sensor at the end of a cable. There are no sensors along the cable itself.

Nah, that's not correct.
Here's the AN/TB-29 for example:
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/tb-29.htm

Pisces · 06-27-17, 10:54 AM

During the turn it does seem like the TA acts like a stiff tail in the horizontal plane. At least on the TMA screen of subs. Maybe that is what they meant. And that is perhaps the cause of those erroneous bearing lines before it is straightened. Those lines should not be considered valid and ought to be ignored.

The TA is so long compared to the difference in depth that the curve of it in a vertical sense makes little difference. The 3D view seems to match when it get's dragged along the bottom and starts to flush out. At very low speeds in deep depths the TA seems to droop quite vertical at the end. And iirc the bearing information received from it in those cases was quite wild and not usefull. Suggesting that the angle of the end does affect it's bearing accuracy. I don't think you can use it effectively like a helo's dipping sonar to listen into to the deep sound channel.

Pisces · 06-27-17, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

... Doesn't the FFG output the array depth?

Correct, "array depth": Subsim DW review:

p7p8 · 06-27-17, 01:06 PM

In RA, many submarines have DTA (Depth of Towed Array) information in broadband mode:

(SSN-21 Seawolf + SSN-23 Jimmy Carter + Virginia + Trafalgar + Trenchant
Type 212 + Type 212A + Collins + Rubis + Amethyste + Suffren)

(Akula-I + Akula-I Impoved + Akula-II + Akula-II Impoved
Oscar-II + Delta-IV + Typhoon 941U + Borey)

Pisces · 06-27-17, 01:08 PM

Oh cool. They modded that into the interface.

06-27-17, 01:23 PM

Playing DW since 2005 (on and off, of course).
Never, ever noticed/thought about what DTA is...

This is what amazed me about this sim.
You can learn new things about it after hundreds of hours of playing.

06-25-17, 05:26 PM	#16
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I think the TA is modelled as a chain of sensors, perhaps the more sensible in the latter part of it and perhaps not, I never bothered. OTOH when it's true that streaming 1/3 of it serves almost as well as streaming the whole would be an hint in this direction. If so, when the TA is say 1/3 below the layer and 2/3 above, in the reality I would mostly get signal from below (by say 90%?). If so yes, one better knows where the tail of is TA is __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

06-27-17, 07:09 AM	#17
Wildcat Engineer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 215 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	I am curious to know if the TA going under the layer is actually modeled correctly or not? I have a feeling that in the sim, the TA is actually just a straight rigid wire that pivots around the end of your frigate. In the DW manual it states in the FFG TA section that even if the TA wire appears bent and is at XYZ depth, it is not being modeled in the sim. I'm not really sure what's going on, this might require some multiplayer or custom mission sleuthing to figure out?

06-27-17, 10:54 AM	#20
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	During the turn it does seem like the TA acts like a stiff tail in the horizontal plane. At least on the TMA screen of subs. Maybe that is what they meant. And that is perhaps the cause of those erroneous bearing lines before it is straightened. Those lines should not be considered valid and ought to be ignored. The TA is so long compared to the difference in depth that the curve of it in a vertical sense makes little difference. The 3D view seems to match when it get's dragged along the bottom and starts to flush out. At very low speeds in deep depths the TA seems to droop quite vertical at the end. And iirc the bearing information received from it in those cases was quite wild and not usefull. Suggesting that the angle of the end does affect it's bearing accuracy. I don't think you can use it effectively like a helo's dipping sonar to listen into to the deep sound channel.

06-27-17, 01:06 PM	#22
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	In RA, many submarines have DTA (Depth of Towed Array) information in broadband mode: (SSN-21 Seawolf + SSN-23 Jimmy Carter + Virginia + Trafalgar + Trenchant Type 212 + Type 212A + Collins + Rubis + Amethyste + Suffren) (Akula-I + Akula-I Impoved + Akula-II + Akula-II Impoved Oscar-II + Delta-IV + Typhoon 941U + Borey)

06-27-17, 01:08 PM	#23
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Oh cool. They modded that into the interface.

06-27-17, 01:23 PM	#24
Nippelspanner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Playing DW since 2005 (on and off, of course). Never, ever noticed/thought about what DTA is... This is what amazed me about this sim. You can learn new things about it after hundreds of hours of playing.