USS Fitzgerald Collision

Gargamel · 06-17-17, 04:56 PM

Surprised nobodies started a thread on this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40314128

7 sailors still missing.

Whats goofy is the track of the merchant vessel. 20 minutes before the collision it pulls a U turn, hits the Fitz, and then heads back the way it was going? "Ooops sorry, I was texting and boating!".

I'm not assigning blame here, that's just... weird. I mean, a missile destroyer with those huge expensive radar systems probably should have seen it coming.

Mr Quatro · 06-17-17, 05:03 PM

I feel sorry for those seven (7) missing sailors in the middle of the night no less.

Glad this wasn't the narrow straits in Iran with an Iranian shipping container vessel.

06-17-17, 08:56 PM

I am baffled this happened. I mean, what the Hell went wrong on the Fitzgerald!? Radar, ESM, night vision optics, well trained and supervised crew (in theory), so how is it possible to collide with a container ship!?

Too bad about the loss of life though. I mean, at this point, 7 missing... there's no real chance to find survivors, unfortunately.

Whoever is responsible, he won't ever sleep well again.

Rockstar · 06-17-17, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel

Surprised nobodies started a thread on this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40314128

7 sailors still missing.

Whats goofy is the track of the merchant vessel. 20 minutes before the collision it pulls a U turn, hits the Fitz, and then heads back the way it was going? "Ooops sorry, I was texting and boating!".

I'm not assigning blame here, that's just... weird. I mean, a missile destroyer with those huge expensive radar systems probably should have seen it coming.

It was the mids so its possible there was an inexperienced Navy JO on watch coupled with the civilian ship usually being highly automated, its bridge watch minimally manned. Id wager human error, more specifically the reliance on todays technological wizardry by both parties is going to be the main contributing factor in this collision. Container ships of that size just dont make sudden u-turns and come at ya. It takes a lot of time to bring those beasties about. But if you rely on a radar plot you may not see those changes in bearing and range to target develope into a risk of collision until its too late. Then there is the dilemma every JO faces that can burn precious minutes away, do I call the captain? I doubt the civilian ship even knew the Navy boat was even there. Oh Im sure his RADAR's collision alarm was blaring away (if it was properly tuned) but those guys dont look out the window much until it does.

The best and most reliable navigation system on any ship is the seamans eye. It could have recognized the warning signs much earlier than any radar.

Mr Quatro · 06-17-17, 10:49 PM

This will be interesting to follow and see what really happened.

I thought CIC was manned at all times ... not just for combat. All it would take is a simple grease pencil plot on the bridge radar scope to determine range was closing and speed should be increased.

but it was the middle of the night and I suppose in shipping lanes so we wait for the blame game. This particular missile destroyer had missiles that could intercept North Korean missiles even in outer space.

She's going to be out of service for a long time ...

mako88sb · 06-17-17, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

I am baffled this happened. I mean, what the Hell went wrong on the Fitzgerald!? Radar, ESM, night vision optics, well trained and supervised crew (in theory), so how is it possible to collide with a container ship!?

Too bad about the loss of life though. I mean, at this point, 7 missing... there's no real chance to find survivors, unfortunately.

Whoever is responsible, he won't ever sleep well again.

Sounds like the missing have been found. Sad outcome:
http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/D...-june-18-2017/

Mr Quatro · 06-18-17, 12:25 AM

One news report said all seven were found in a berthing compartment on the side that was hit and another one said that the search was still on.

Another clue is that the CO was on the bridge and has been transfered to a Navy hospital with injuries.

Jimbuna · 06-18-17, 06:35 AM

A very serious business.

Respects and condolences to those who were lost.

The results of the enquiry will hopefully mean less chance of such a tragedy happening again.

06-18-17, 11:43 AM

call me paranoid, but in todays environment, and with the hatred around the globe for the USA, this incident leaves me less likely to just assume a cargo ship makes a U-turn to ram a US missle frigate simply because of a software glitch in the navigation system.

and like most of you, I am perplexed as to how the frigate couldn't see this ship
coming right at them from a mile away and easily avoid it

Mr Quatro · 06-18-17, 12:11 PM

I agree with you Webster ... something is very odd about all of this. They showed a track of the two ships on GMA this morning and the destroyer was straight and the container ship was hair pin till it hit the destroyer.

Plus it has now been reported that the container ship's damage on the starboard side of the ship included the Captain's cabin. I thought he was on the bridge, but now he is in a Navy hospital with injuries that could've come from being in bed at 2:30am in the morning.

Here's the track ...

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index...opic=267712.25

Quote:

Based on the cargo ship's track, it may be a deliberate attack on the USN. Based on where the Fitz was hit, the cargo ship apparently took no evasive action

Platapus · 06-18-17, 12:15 PM

How fast were the respective ships traveling? I have not been able to read that in the news reporting.

Container ships can reach 25 kts but that is only in the open sea lanes and it takes quite the amount of time to get up to that speed.

Here is an interesting site that describes container ship turns

http://shipsbusiness.com/turning-circle.html

MaDef · 06-18-17, 12:36 PM

What we haven't seen is the Navigation tracks for the Fitzgerald and the other traffic in the area.

Rockstar · 06-18-17, 03:51 PM

Good point about the missing tracks of other ships in the area. Rules of the Road apply to two ships when meeting, crossing or overtaking each other. Provided both crews are situationally aware of their surroundings its relatively easy for two ships to stay out of the way of each other.

When you get three or more vessels in close proximity to each other it can be sometimes difficult to know the best course of action is to avoid a collision. Staying out of the way of one may put you in danger with another. The only options are to take early and substantial action by altering course, reduce speed or stopping. But whatever you choose your actions must be deliberate and made in such a way to be readily apparent to the other bridge. Pussy footing around making small incremental changes can cause a lot of problems.

The course changes of the containership appear to be pretty obvious. But like I said before, it may not be as readily apparent on a RADAR plot as one might think.

Onkel Neal · 06-18-17, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel

Surprised nobodies started a thread on this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40314128

7 sailors still missing.

Whats goofy is the track of the merchant vessel. 20 minutes before the collision it pulls a U turn, hits the Fitz, and then heads back the way it was going? "Ooops sorry, I was texting and boating!".

I'm not assigning blame here, that's just... weird. I mean, a missile destroyer with those huge expensive radar systems probably should have seen it coming.

I'm thinking the same thing. How was it possible for this to happen??

em2nought · 06-18-17, 07:44 PM

These two will finally have to give up their #1 spot.

06-17-17, 05:03 PM	#2
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I feel sorry for those seven (7) missing sailors in the middle of the night no less. Glad this wasn't the narrow straits in Iran with an Iranian shipping container vessel. __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

06-17-17, 10:49 PM	#5
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This will be interesting to follow and see what really happened. I thought CIC was manned at all times ... not just for combat. All it would take is a simple grease pencil plot on the bridge radar scope to determine range was closing and speed should be increased. but it was the middle of the night and I suppose in shipping lanes so we wait for the blame game. This particular missile destroyer had missiles that could intercept North Korean missiles even in outer space. She's going to be out of service for a long time ... __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

06-18-17, 12:25 AM	#7
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	One news report said all seven were found in a berthing compartment on the side that was hit and another one said that the search was still on. Another clue is that the CO was on the bridge and has been transfered to a Navy hospital with injuries. __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

06-18-17, 06:35 AM	#8
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,844 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A very serious business. Respects and condolences to those who were lost. The results of the enquiry will hopefully mean less chance of such a tragedy happening again. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

06-18-17, 12:15 PM	#11
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,393 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	How fast were the respective ships traveling? I have not been able to read that in the news reporting. Container ships can reach 25 kts but that is only in the open sea lanes and it takes quite the amount of time to get up to that speed. Here is an interesting site that describes container ship turns http://shipsbusiness.com/turning-circle.html __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

06-17-17, 04:56 PM	#1
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	USS Fitzgerald Collision Surprised nobodies started a thread on this. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40314128 7 sailors still missing. Whats goofy is the track of the merchant vessel. 20 minutes before the collision it pulls a U turn, hits the Fitz, and then heads back the way it was going? "Ooops sorry, I was texting and boating!". I'm not assigning blame here, that's just... weird. I mean, a missile destroyer with those huge expensive radar systems probably should have seen it coming. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

06-17-17, 08:56 PM	#3
Nippelspanner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I am baffled this happened. I mean, what the Hell went wrong on the Fitzgerald!? Radar, ESM, night vision optics, well trained and supervised crew (in theory), so how is it possible to collide with a container ship!? Too bad about the loss of life though. I mean, at this point, 7 missing... there's no real chance to find survivors, unfortunately. Whoever is responsible, he won't ever sleep well again.

06-18-17, 11:43 AM	#9
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	call me paranoid, but in todays environment, and with the hatred around the globe for the USA, this incident leaves me less likely to just assume a cargo ship makes a U-turn to ram a US missle frigate simply because of a software glitch in the navigation system. and like most of you, I am perplexed as to how the frigate couldn't see this ship coming right at them from a mile away and easily avoid it

06-18-17, 12:36 PM	#12
MaDef Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,194 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	What we haven't seen is the Navigation tracks for the Fitzgerald and the other traffic in the area.

06-18-17, 03:51 PM	#13
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Good point about the missing tracks of other ships in the area. Rules of the Road apply to two ships when meeting, crossing or overtaking each other. Provided both crews are situationally aware of their surroundings its relatively easy for two ships to stay out of the way of each other. When you get three or more vessels in close proximity to each other it can be sometimes difficult to know the best course of action is to avoid a collision. Staying out of the way of one may put you in danger with another. The only options are to take early and substantial action by altering course, reduce speed or stopping. But whatever you choose your actions must be deliberate and made in such a way to be readily apparent to the other bridge. Pussy footing around making small incremental changes can cause a lot of problems. The course changes of the containership appear to be pretty obvious. But like I said before, it may not be as readily apparent on a RADAR plot as one might think. Last edited by Rockstar; 06-18-17 at 04:11 PM.

06-18-17, 07:44 PM	#15
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,485 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	These two will finally have to give up their #1 spot. __________________ em2nought is ecstatic garbage!