Released! The first review please!?

[Pirate]

I wish everyone would stop calling Cold Waters a subsim!
It's not a subsim.

It's a strategy and action game.

Compared to real subsims like DW, SC and SH series it's just plain arcadish...

Not only it does NOT really put you behind the "wheel" as all controls and functionality are dumbed down compared to subsims.

Yes, one thing it does have are gorgeous graphics!

[daft]

It also has tension in spades! I'm really liking this so far. It's quite difficult at times, but hey, it's war.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I wish everyone would stop calling Cold Waters a subsim!
It's not a subsim.

It's a strategy and action game.

Compared to real subsims like DW, SC and SH series it's just plain arcadish...

Not only it does NOT really put you behind the "wheel" as all controls and functionality are dumbed down compared to subsims.

Yes, one thing it does have are gorgeous graphics!

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. You do realize that a submarine has different crews each with its own role, right? For example, being a commander does not qualify you as an expert sonalyst. Silent Hunter does simulate at some degree each role, but fail to simulate a typical crew role. Instead you are forced to be a multitask crew member which is simply not realistic.

Cold Waters is neither a sonalyst sim, a radiomen sim nor fire control technician sim. Cold Waters is about being the Commander and his role is not to master the sonar nor master the machine room, his role is to give commands and take decisions, in order words decide the proper tactics that fits better to a given situation. So in this case, as you can see Cold Waters begin to get into sim category.

As a commander only what a sim must offer at this point is not manual control of multiple components of a submarine, but well done combat environment that force the commander to think twice and make them pay a high price when failing to do its homework (eg. failing to get enough awareness situation before proceeding with an attack).

What Cold Waters needs to really make it a good simulator is not to force you to manual control each aspect thus making it unrealistic but rather simulate systems failures and human error (for both AI and player crews) where applicable without adding artificial difficulties in order to avoid/reduce the 'gaming effect'.

Don't take me wrong, i really love having to plot everything by myself in Silent Hunter (although i don't like the tools that are given to you) but i would not bash Cold waters just because it doesn't offer that. It seems that some people failed to understand what Cold Waters was about!


Update: Obviously i ignored all bugs which MUST be fixed

[lesrae]

I'm with the majority of the reviews above, this is a great looking game (I'd say the needle swings over to game and away from simulation) which is engaging and great fun to play.

There are a few niggles that I'll report to the Dev's once I know the mechanism for doing so but nothing that make it unplayable.

Pros & Cons? I for one like the hands-on approach to driving the boat but would like to hear confirmation/information from the sonar station etc. rather than have to catch text pop up for a few seconds out of the corner of my eye.

One debug hint - I was having problems controlling the scope until I realised interference was coming from my joystick which was jammed over to one side (MS Force Feedback Pro with no power plugged in). After I centred that that everything was peachy.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by lesrae

Pros & Cons? I for one like the hands-on approach to driving the boat but would like to hear confirmation/information from the sonar station etc. rather than have to catch text pop up for a few seconds out of the corner of my eye.

Agreed. Crew voice notifs will make this a lot better. Stay tuned for further details.

[StandingCow]

I really hope this sells well, not just for the future of the franchise but for Multiplayer in this version, as well as the ability to play the Russian side. Be nice to have some PvP.

[Hitman]

It seems a promising start with lots of potential. I don't blame the devs/producer for releasing a half-sim or a half-tactical game (depends on what you look at) but think instead it was a clever way to get started. We know the devs follow subsim, so I guess feedback here can see the game expanding in the future to those areas of pure simulation many people (Myself included) miss, like direct control of some stations. If it keeps getting support and sales, this could be further developed into satisfying all kind of public -or even the same person depending on his mood to play dirctly or from tactical POV.

[Foxendown]

I've spent about 2 hours or so with this sim now and overall am very pleased with it. Some random points, including things I'd like to see fixed:

• I really don't like not knowing how much water is under my keel, have I missed something, can't see a keystroke?
• I would like to be able to set an exact speed in knots (but can't complain really because Atlantic fleet was the same).
• Graphics are good but for some reason on my system they look duller and flatter than in Atlantic Fleet (but I haven't tried tweaking settings yet).
• Minimum requirements are wonderfully low, which means I ought to be able to play this on my Lynx 10 tablet.
• I wish there was a Navigation tab as I find it easy to get confused with all the keystrokes. I've already broached by accident trying to go the other way and turned in the wrong direction. I've solved the problem by programming a gamepad now which works fine.
• Being really petty now I know-but the briefings and other text needs proof reading again for typos and in the campaign screen the land force icon looks like a BMP-3 not in service till 1987 and even more wrong for NATO. Armour experts please correct me if I'm wrong!
• Where is the level editor that was mentioned on the Steam Store page (reference now removed)?
• I liked the tutorials and the help screen is a good feature but IMHO tutorials should always include some relatively easy scenarios in which you are under fire. As it is all you have are sitting ducks. Otherwise the single missions and campaigns can seem like a cliff wall to less experienced players.

So far, based on early impressions, I think Killerfish are to be congratulated on a great product, I do hope that now they will focus on enhancing this rather then heading off to something new. I would certainly go for a "Blue Storm Rising" add-on (one Soviet sub versus the might of NATO)

[Stardog765]

Thank you all for all of the great reviews on this.
I am still deciding myself but will likely go ahead and pick it up as I REALLY want to support these guys and the future of what this game could be.

I was not looking for DW out of the gate but my hopes are that this might be a mod friendly starting platform for an eventual DW level game.

Knowing that his community is so supportive of it out of the gate and positive about what could be really helps me make my decision.


Thanks

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by Stardog765

Thank you all for all of the great reviews on this.
I am still deciding myself but will likely go ahead and pick it up as I REALLY want to support these guys and the future of what this game could be.

I was not looking for DW out of the gate but my hopes are that this might be a mod friendly starting platform for an eventual DW level game.

Knowing that his community is so supportive of it out of the gate and positive about what could be really helps me make my decision.


Thanks

One of the reason that i bought it and did not filed for a refund is because i want to support this guys. I mean the game has some flaws and some concept design that does not reflects 100% what i'm looking for but .... sub games itself is a niche product, either arcade or sim, so to attract others devs or even a high profile publisher (talking to you Ubisoft) the only thing that we can do is to show that there is a market here, tiny, but there is. Only by attracting others dev we might aspire to have a real Silent Hunter successor someday.

[PL_Harpoon]

After spending a few more hours in the game I have to say I'm increasingly more impressed and have take back what I've said about the torpedoes.

Firstly, they behave just like they should. I had a similar situation as before but this time I was close enough to see what's happening. This time I fooled the torpedo with a noisemaker and turned the opposite way to run away. After passing through the NM the torpedo entered circular search pattern and didn't found me after first circle, but on the second one it picked me up again.

Secondly there's no bug with torpedoes braking wire where they shouldn't. If you don't do any sharp manoeuvrers you can easily keep the wire intact. Provided it won't break on launch.

Also I found several nice touches to the game. For example, if you fire torpedoes during sharp manoeuvres (especially at sharp angles) it will get stuck inside the tube rendering it useless.

Another thing is that someone here mentioned that you can't break the towed array. Well, considering that signal strength from towed array drops significantly above 10 kts and shows 0 above 15 I like to imagine that the crewman responsible just automatically retrieves it at those speeds. I know it should take much more time than accelerating from 5 to 15 knots but at least it's better than nothing

One more thing to mention is that the game can be really satisfying. It feels really good when you use all your tactical advantages (thermal layers, staying near the surface when the sea is high, or creeping at the bottom if the enemy is shallow, using signal strength comparison to figure out his detection range etc), manage to get into the baffles and shoot the enemy at close range so that he can't do anything to avoid the hit.

Also, the AI seems a bit more competent at Hard difficulty, i.e. they're much more conservative with the usage of active sonar. One time I had a duel with a sub during which through the entire time I had no sonar contact with the enemy. I had to entirely depend on his occasional active pings (they can give you 1-3 pings and then stay silent) and direction of his torpedoes to kill him.

And lastly, you can play entire encounters from the tactical view. Even dodging torpedoes isn't that difficult (statistically I survived more attacks while not relying on a 3d view). I'm beginning to use the 3d view as an eye-candy tool when there's no immediate threat.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by Foxendown

[*] I really don't like not knowing how much water is under my keel, have I missed something, can't see a keystroke?

You can, t shows in the conditions tab but only when the bottom is lower than 1000ft

I want to like it.
But I simply can't at the moment.


While I do not regret to support the title, I am disappointed in the 1.0 result, so far. It feels too arcade for my taste, and is ridden with bugs, while many "features" make you want to rip your hair out.


Some things out of my head:
- Instant-ASW aircraft with pin-point sonobuoy-spam.
- Enemy submarines going active all the time, because it's Tuesday.
- Enemy submarines hitting the ground very(!) often, because Vodka.
- You fired a wire-guided torp eh? Let's cut that wire because 25% yolo!
- I got killed - back to "We have a sonar contact!" screen, "repeating" the same mission(?)
- Loading Special Forces did unload everything else without warning/notice, so I sailed out with just 4 Mk48 in my tubes - come at me bruh!
- Briefing demands to sink special targets - your commander pisses on you for trying to guesstimate what might be your target among all those same ship symbols present (so. not. fun.).
- Apparently, all it takes to fool modern torpedoes is putting your rudder hard to port/starboard. If in doubt -> knuckle. 100% fail safe - except against wire guided torpedoes.
- Russian surface groups don't know EMCON - non-stop pinging. Yay, disco!
(heard this is kinda legit, but I have doubts tbh.)
- Overall gameplay seems "too close" - even at max spawn range, and player is thrown into action too quickly with no time to maneuver whatsoever. This is bad, so very, very bad!
- Campaign map lacks features and action. It is interesting for exactly 11,4 seconds. Then you've seen it all, and Europe being completely covered in snow, in November, gets odd too.
- No crew voices. This is a deal breaker for me. It disconnects you from your sub, steals immersion and authenticity, and most importantly: The feeling of commanding something alive, due to ~130 souls aboard.
I heard the devs want to add them later - but this is a review, not a "let's pretend it will be great at some point"-view.
- Mini-map desperately needs a range-meter, so you can judge distance at all. Right now, contacts on it could be right next to you, or in a different time zone - you wouldn't know besides the range data the contact itself shows, but that's different. Situational awareness is key, and here the game is lacking, I feel.
- All manual controls. While it reigns supreme for evasive maneuvers, it sucks so hard for periscope depth, or simple maneuvers. I am the Captain! All I should need to do is order course and depth, so i can focus on other things. Here I have to constantly watch not going below crush depth, broaching the surface, or turning too far during course adjustments, all while not losing focus for combat. Terrible design decision.

Honestly, gameplay feels like a 20€ game for mobiles or tablets, as - if broken down - it is the same over and over and over, unfortunately.
The "dynamic campaign" doesn't change that, due to the quick-mission like scenarios. This isn't really convincing me at all, and I am sorry to say so.


Now the positive things in a nut shell:
- Optics are fantastic mostly (some FX look horrible, like underwater explosions, others look great, like overall lighting).
- Sounds are splendid. Could hardly be better. Everything sounds as I would expect it, and the sounds are high quality, not some cracking mono-garbage like in the Sonalyst titles (age is no excuse).
- Artwork is beautiful. Period.

Now, the developers seem to have their hearts in the right spot for this title, and I am rather confident that many things mentioned above will be fixed or addressed. On top, it is moddable in some aspects, another big plus.
Yet, the devs need to step up their game (no pun) to really turn this title into a simulation. In all honesty, having nice models and NATO-format briefings with more-or-less accurate sonar modeling really doesn't cut it while AI is failing (see above) or gameplay feels like on methamphetamine in a dark closet.
(And I set speed and range scaling to 1:1, yes.)

[zachanscom]

game is great, but i wish the subs had more polygons, some edges are kind of sharp. especially charlie class when you look from the front. is it possible to extract the models and subdivide it and retopologize?

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by zachanscom

game is great, but i wish the subs had more polygons, some edges are kind of sharp. especially charlie class when you look from the front. is it possible to extract the models and subdivide it and retopologize?

I've noticed that too!