Manchester Arena 'explosion'

Originally Posted by ValoWay

So are people here really believing that Islam as a whole, the entire religion is evil? That honestly sounds extremely narrow-minded to me..

What is more narrow-minded?
To actually read the source-code of said ideology and find a conclusion based upon the content provided, or never even have read it and go claim those who oppose it are the ones being narrow-minded?

Yes, I did just claim you never read the Quran, and I do so with high confidence. Most non-Muslims who read it carefully and have a functioning brain can only come to the conclusion that the ideology itself, is evil. Yes.
The Quran suggests to apply the Sharia, for example.
Do we need to take a closer look at the Sharia, or can we agree right away that it isn't really that cool?

Originally Posted by ValoWay

We also don't call the german people evil, because of the nazis..

Uhm, that analogy doesn't work at all.

Not every German was a Nazi, especially among the civilian population.
Every Muslim however is required to follow the book, that is what makes him a Muslim, and there is no room for error here. If he does not - then he is no Mulsim, no matter what he claims. The alcohol drinking, pork eating, not fasting, not praying, "fashion muslims" aren't muslims. Just like a Person is no attack helicopter, just because he wants to be. We are what we do, not what we say we are.
The Quran is considered infallible. It is without error, and the absolute truth. Further, it is demanded that the Prophet is seen as an idol, to be followed (by action!).
Again, at what point is it "evil enough" for PC-people to admit there's something... off?
And why would I not come to the conclusion that, drawing a conclusion, this ideology is not evil/bad/dangerous, considering the facts?
Why is that so atrocious to you?

[Von Due]

One problem there is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. One makes a claim, another disproves the claim, the first changes the premises. Terror is terror end of that story. Terror is not a competition where 2nd place gets a green card. If you want to understand terror then you can't do what you do there, dismiss anything that hasn't got the "Muslim" tag on it. Terror is not what happens "here" exclusively, by "those" exclusively, hurting "us" exclusively.

You have posted those charts before if I recall correctly and I ask: Of 1600 million worldwide, where do they live, the ones who were asked? In Europe or in Asia? In cities or rural areas? Which countries? Did you spot the decreasing numbers as the opinions got more extreme?

Here's a thought to play with: apparently 500 million of 1600 million do not want Sharia law. Where do they live? Roughly 1000 out of 1600 million do not want death for leaving Islam. Where do they live?

I believe I already said this the first time those charts were posted but yes, there are people who want Sharia, who want to kill infidels and all that. They need to be contained. The point is, I say they do not represent all Muslims as your own charts also show.

[Skybird]

The overwhelming majority of those plotting the terror attacks in Madrid and London after 9/11, were "well-integrated", well-educated Muslims of social middle class, students, with good job perspectives, stable homes, and good income or outlook for good income. The polcie was stunned back then that the usual profiles they had of terrorist personalities, did almost completely fail. It made the news ten years ago, if you remember.

Today we see quite some migrants who get radicalised within just 2-3 months at times. 2-3 months. Obviously they cam into contatc with a toxix, highly potent agent. Not even reeducation camps in the USSR or PRC were that successful.

It is one of the most beloved lies of the Western political left to claim that Muslim terrorism gets bred by social disadvantages. And that they would not form up if only we would love them more, no matter their often unspeakable and unacceptable behavior of spitting on us and our home's culture and values. The left loves this lie because it allows it to propagate once again the class-less society and the redistribution of wealth from the privilegde evil wealthy people to the poor sods serving the cliche'S role of being victims. The political left implies therefore that Muslim terrorism and mass murder is a freedom fight and a fight for justice and recognition.

It. Is. Nothing of that.

It just is coldblooded, mean, underhanded murder, this time targetting children and young teens in scores. -There is nothing to be understood. Nothing to be explained. There is nothing to be forgiven. And no foul "compromise" and none of these endlessly talked about "reasonable solutions" to be accepted.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It just is coldblooded, mean, underhanded murder, this time targetting children and young teens in scores. -There is nothing to be understood. Nothing to be explained. There is nothing to be forgiven. And no foul "compromise" and none of these endlessly talked about "reasonable solutions" to be accepted.

So.... what would your solution be?

[Skybird]

Hurt feelings deemed to be of more concern than mangled dead children.

People see something horrible happen in the world, and they run to the internet, and they render their social media, Facebook or Twitter or whatever they got, and they all write down the exact same thing:
"My thoughts and prayers!" "My thoughts and prayers with the people in Aurora!" "My thoughts and prayers with the families in Boston!" Do you know what's that worth? ######## nothing! ######## lot less than nothing. Less than nothing. You are not giving any of your time or money or even your compassion, all you were doing, all you were doing is saying: "Don't forget about ME today."
(...)
Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are; and courage to see that they do not remain as they are. - Saint Augustine.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Von Due

So.... what would your solution be?

Lead, force Muslims in the West to unconditionally follow - or kick them out of the way. I don't care for their precious sentiments. I just don't care. They still defend islam and claim it is peace? So let them pay the blood tax all alone. I refuse to be interested any longer.

The thoughts and prayers part is from Anthony Jeselnik:

Regarding P.J. Watson, he should be taken with a grain of salt, in my opinion, as he is sometimes near to the edge of absurd conspiracy theories - but that video was definitely a good one.

PS: I've just seen now that Jeselnik's clip was embedded in Watson's video. Duh.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Regarding P.J. Watson, he should be taken with a grain of salt, in my opinion, as he is sometimes near to the edge of absurd conspiracy theories - but that video was definitely a good one.

Yes to both. Other stuff by him has to be taken with caution. But this one is a direct hit, and its valid. 100 / 100 on the score card.

One youtuber also hit the nails head in the comments, and reminds me of my earlier post:


As I said, rinse and repeat.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Regarding P.J. Watson, he should be taken with a grain of salt, in my opinion, as he is sometimes near to the edge of absurd conspiracy theories[..]

Well, he is good pals with Alex Jones and does work for infowars.

[Jimbuna]

Okay folks, back to the actual root topic, namely the terrorist attack at Manchester.......

Police investigating the Manchester Arena bomb attack have stopped sharing information with the US after leaks to the media, the BBC understands.
UK officials were outraged when photos appearing to show debris from the attack appeared in the New York Times.
It came after the name of bomber Salman Abedi was leaked to US media just hours after the attack, which killed 22 - including children - and injured 64.
Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump at a Nato meeting later.
Greater Manchester Police hopes to resume normal intelligence relationships - a two-way flow of information - soon but is currently "furious", the BBC understands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210

I wonder if it could be said that the above is symptomatic of the current administration who govern the US?

[ikalugin]

Lead, force Muslims in the West to unconditionally follow - or kick them out of the way. I don't care for their precious sentiments. I just don't care. They still defend islam and claim it is peace? So let them pay the blood tax all alone. I refuse to be interested any longer.

Sounds authoritatian.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Sounds authoritatian.

Sounds determined, and anti-indifferent.

Sounds not like the Trallalla that we have had en masses and masses in the past 16 - SIXTEEN - years.

BTW, the act by the police to arrest a criminal, is authoritarian. Else it would be useless.

And ever more camera surveillance, automatic face recogntion, biometric datapools - what is that? What - no complaints?

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sounds determined, and anti-indifferent.

Sounds not like the Trallalla that we have had en masses and masses in the past 16 - SIXTEEN - years.

BTW, the act by the police to arrest a criminal, is authoritarian. Else it would be useless.

And ever more camera surveillance, automatic face recogntion, biometric datapools - what is that? What - no complaints?

The difference between my view and my perception of yours is small, ideological, yet important.

And it is - the state should enforce the legtimately set laws of the land (and as such punish any violators according to said laws).

What the state should not do is to prosecute individuals (or the sets of said individuals - comunities) on the basis of religion or ideological views, however horrible those may be, provided that the individual in question did not break the law. Morever while the state can (and should) discriminate between the groups and conduct it's preventative and investigatory activites accordingly, the state should not and should not be able to prosecute an individual on the bases of his affiliation with any group (provided said affiliation is not illegal) but only on the bases of court's decision regarding a crime said individual did commit.