US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[mapuc]

Proof !?

Do an ordinary American need these Proof or non-Proof about eventually connection between Trump and Russia ?

I say no-The only one or ones who need these "Evidence/Proof" is those who are investigation this accusation. When this investigation is over and if there is a verdict or not, they can aside with all the justice-paper release these proof.

Even then I'm not in position to put a verdict on your President-´cause I have not the knowledge to do so and it is not in my interest either.

Markus

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

nice dance move there skippy.

so...still no proof of collusion between Trump and the Russians I see...

please feel free to post when you actually have some facts.

If you bothered to actually read carefully any of my previous posts on the Russian situation instead of engaging in juvenile schoolyard antics, relying on knee-jerk reactions instead of arguing facts, you would know I have repeatedly said I do not, let me repeat that in case you need to read it more than once, not, at this time, believe there is any proof Trump is/was directly involved in the Trump Campaign/Russian influence controversy; I have stated so before on multiple occasions and do so again. So, I don't have any facts to post on Trump's possible personal involvement. Life is so much easier when you actually pay attention...

However, I do believe there is more than ample proof there was questionable contact between Trump campaign associates and Russian political actors. If you want actual proof of that, I give you Michael Flynn, who has admitted to such and who has tacitly admitted to lying both to Congress and to Federal investigators about his activities, itself an actual Federal crime; his paper and records are also under a Senate subpoena since he has refused to deliver them without an immunity deal. I also give you Jeff Sessions, who has been found to have also lied to Congress about his dealings with Russian actors and has likewise thus committed a Federal crime; the fact he is still Attorney General is indeed remarkable for an ostensibly "law & order" administration. Others, like Page, Manafort, et al, are on the cusp of having subpoenas issued on them; all have already received formal requests, a step short of an actual subpoenas, to turn over documents to various investigatory agencies. The very fact subpoenas are being issued by the FBI, the Senate, the House, and at least one Federal Grand jury is a very significant indicator of how far the investigations have gone and how very serious they are: subpoenas are very serious and are not issued lightly...

While Trump has not been connected personally to the activities of his cronies, his actions regarding the investigations, in his official capacity as POTUS, have been those of a man desperately trying to hide possible guilt than those of a person who is above reproach. In fact, his latest action, the firing of the FBI Director, is an actual act of obstruction of justice and itself an actual Federal crime, and, by his own personal, recorded admission in a recent interview, he ordered the firing for the sole purpose of curtailing the FBI's investigation into the Trump campaign/Russian influence scandals. There are Constitutional and legal experts, from all parts of the political spectrum, and far more knowledgeable than you or I, who have pointed out additional charges that could be levied if Congress or the investigating agencies saw fit to do so. So, while I can't offer any facts of Trump's connection to Russia, Trump, himself, is providing ever-increasing proof of criminality and unsuitability for office. No one really has to 'go after Trump': he's doing the job himself and, in typical Trump fashion, it appears when the hammer does come down, it will be "Yuuuge!!"...

So, then, I have more than once provided actual, verifiable cites for my postings and you have done little more than to engage in vague, juvenile heckling with out a single shred of counter-proof to support anything you claim. You mock Politifact, but, even like Breitbart, it like a broken clock, can be right sometimes. The only reason I used the Politifact article was because, after trying to find a concise article/source, they were the only one I could find that put the whole question into a relatable timeline. Mock, if you wish, the source (God knows a lot of us have mocked Breitbart, etc.), but I have yet to see you actually rebut the content of the article; in fact I have very rarely seen you rebut any of the arguments given by other with actual counter-facts or data; all we tend to see is schoolyard "sez you" sort of rhetoric...

Come back when you have some actual articulate facts or data to support your bluster; until then, enjoy your time on the swings and teeter-totter...



<O>

[Catfish]

I am getting thoroughly disinterested of all that Trump f.-upery

[Bilge_Rat]

so Vienna, I see you admit there is no evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia.

without actual evidence that Trump personally committed a criminal offence, the democrats can foam at the mouth all they want, but Trump will still be President for the next 4 years.

and what exactly do they have on the other Trump associates?

-Carter Page was never officially part of the campaign and he never met or personally spoke to Trump;

-Michael Flynn was a 33 year career military officer that was appointed head of military intelligence by Obama. Exactly what is it that the Democrats think? That a guy like that would collude with Russia against the USA? That makes absolutely no sense;

same with the others, lots of innuendos, speculation, but no evidence that would hold up in court.

we are done.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

And then what?

Skybird is first against the wall when I come into power, thats what.

That escalated quickly...

[Catfish]

^ .. which is probably the point why some people recently left.

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ .. which is probably the point why some people recently left.

Honestly, I don't think that's the actual reason.
Considering who left Subsim over the years, a rather clear picture becomes visible.
Look at the way Bilge_Rat (and others) debate people here.
As soon as they run aground and don't know what to say because there's no copy/paste material available yet on breitbart and Co, its nothing but trolling of the lowest form.
People just seem to be fed up to go out of their way to deliver honest arguments, backed up with either facts, or at least valid reasoning open for debate, to just hit F5 and find completely retarded nonsense like "muh tis ya source?!" instead of addressing any point made by being a dick and conveniently dismiss everything their opponent just carefully argumented, claiming "it's not intelligent enough" or other incredibly disrespectful insults like "being childish" - instead of reasonable arguments - or for heaven's sake, an argument at all!
The sole point for this kind of people isn't the topic, it is to destroy the political enemy no matter what, and that's a real issue.

People leave this forum because it more and more turns into a right-wing primate-cave where this sort of debate-tactics are tolerated by the administration team, while the most important thing now is to not swear.
Hell, you can even happily share pirated movie links - it's cool, just don't say the f-word.
And just like that you can debate in the most despicable and mean way and insult your opponent way worse, by disrespecting him like we've seen above. That's WAY worse than any f-bomb if you ask me, but the administration decided to not moderate debates besides protecting the countless children on this board(?) from bad bad words that probably destroy their soul upon reading.
I'd rather protect anyone from despicable human scum that, for example, seriously suggests to "nuke the middle east!", but hey - at least no one cursed, right? Phew!

The level of hypocrisy and arbitrariness went completely through the roof quite a while ago and I sincerely believe that's why we lost some incredibly valuable and interesting members and are now left with a right-wing circle jerk of stupidity where, vienna put it best, elementary school yard rhetoric is the way to go for many people.

As long as there won't be a sensible, honest and unbiased moderation of these topics that bear high danger of friction, naturally, there won't be any quality debate at all. Period.
I remember that resident nazi we had, fartenbohn or something?
In his case the moderation demanded he backs his claims up or be gone (holocaust denial craze).
Why isn't that the case always?
Why are people allowed to troll someone into oblivion like above?
Why isn't the moderation team, you know, moderating?
This is beyond me, frankly!

So, considering the above, personally, I don't see why anyone would invest the energy to create a well constructed post (ot post at all, for that matter) if the counter argument is just poo-flinging from an ape-like deplorable who only seeks to disrupt an opponents arguments by basically ignoring or insulting them.
That's the real problem here, not a swear word or an escalation now and then, it happens, no big deal - as long as both sides have an honest agenda and do not just want to disagree because "dem libruls stink!".

[Catfish]

^ some truth in that, just so much: While i agree with a lot of things it is not the solution to act likewise (though it is tempting, of course), or to leave, for reasons i posted in the Ger or UK thread (i think). edit: no, was #2748 here in this thread
Also do not like the bullying and intimidating (trying, at least) of some here. But it is much worse in other forums, after the election the tone was generally lowered everywhere.
Which again is why i posted the 'coming out' of the right back then, and was instantly bullied to my name being posted on other forums, or being hanged or whatever.
Would love to discuss but have no time now. Will try this evening if wife allows.
Your remembering of "Fartenbohn" was classic

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Skybird is first against the wall when I come into power, thats what.

[Skybird]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b69_story.html



Stupidity gets redefined often these days. Hunting season opened for Russia.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b69_story.html



Stupidity gets redefined often these days. Hunting season opened for Russia.

Anon sources told WP. I wonder if WP would be sued for slander.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Without Skybird, I'm pretty sure the Allah Akbar guys are going to run amok, but then most people here are ok with that.

[MaDef]

Nippelspanner, my answer to your post is going to be short and to the point and there is no offense intended:

There is a reason that religion & politics are not discussed in polite circles and an old adage comes to mind when discussing those topics.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Bilge_Rat, you and the other Trumpateers need to dial it back a bit on the inflammatory language and insults, if the people you argue with all leave, you'll be in here arguing with yourself. That would be like paying for a hooker and then masturbating instead, kind of defeats the point of paying for a hooker. (unless of course that's your thing)

Skybird, you keep putting up links to news stories that are long on innuendo, short on facts & a non-sequitur as a comment. All your doing is setting yourself up for everyone else to take potshots at you. If you want a rational discourse you need to put a little more effort into your argument.

RANT OVER.

Originally Posted by MaDef

Nippelspanner, my answer to your post is going to be short and to the point and there is no offense intended:

There is a reason that religion & politics are not discussed in polite circles and an old adage comes to mind when discussing those topics.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Oh no worries, I don't worry about some heat - as long as the goal of the people in the kitchen is to create a good dish, if you see what I mean.