EU was Hitler's idea

[Rockstar]

The main difference between the E.U. and Hitler is, Hitler had vision the E.U. doesnt.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

The main difference between the E.U. and Hitler is, Hitler had vision the E.U. doesnt.

Oh, the EU has vision - way too much of it, as always with Europeans.

What it lacks is sense of realism, and awareness for the difference between what is ideological, cultural-sociological ballast created in a laboratory, and what is pragmatically desirable. And that is NATO as the primary tool of security-creating, and economic cooperation in the meaning of free trade. Such a union has my support. But no, it wants to be so uch more than "just" this. Its too profance to focus on material realities...

You see this inability to differ between vision and pragmatism in so many areas, last but not least foreing poltics. Both in the Ukraine and Syria the EU acts on the ground sof moral maximum demands. Now compare to the Russians: their imperative is different, they focus on what actually is possible to achieve. I doubt that Putin likes Assad, but he knows that beside Assad no other faction there is that could provide any form of state structure and stability again, once this war may have ended. The terror grouops the West declares as his wanted "allies" - should these be the future of Syria? The wEst fools itself there, like it fooled itself over the Arab Spring, the Egyptians voting for the Muslim Brotherhood, and so forth. - In the Ukraine, the West again started to act on the ground of maximum moral demands, which to support or to enforce it was totally imptent at the same time. Meanwhile w ehave learned once againw hat a corrupt, criminal thug we have embraced ther ein the person of Victor Poroshenko, not to mention the earlier potliians that popped after the Maidan revolution, nd meanwhile have dissapred again. Boy, what a shady crew of ganster and oligarchs! But "Morals!" shouts the West, fingerpointing at Moscow. The Russian may not hjave played nice, but they played according to doctrines we should have known since the cold war, and they have some very valid hisotrical and more important: strategic interests that one can easily see if only what would just care to think oneself into their heads. But did the West do that? No - "Morals" was the parole, and basta.

See where it got us. We are loosing, and geostrategically we have suffered severla defeats from Russia now. Our reaction? "Morals!" Or, as you put it - "Visions!"

No, that does not cut it, that just is not good enough.

Regarding realism, Putin has outplayed the West in the past couple of years. And I think he is running a very strong offensive to erode the EU from within. It simply is in his way.

The only question is whether he can soldifiy his victory before the economy of Russia crumbles once again. He does too little to modenrise the Russian industry, all investments seem to go into the military. Thats is where Russia's sense of realism may lack. Just waging the monetarian war by buying gold as much as he can, is not enough.

[Vatis1982]

Do you want my opinion as a Greek?
Well most of EU citizens believe that Greece took all their money just to spend them like a sailor of a sub after 6 months patrol.
We(citizens) believe that our governments the last 30 years took all the money that EU gave to Greece just for themselves.(half true)
Our current government tries to pay all that but without struggling all of us(citizens).
EU(Now German rule) and IMF tries to take everything now without thinking of the people.
That's why most of us believe Angela Merkel's government (especially Soible) is a heartless and cruel .....bleep.
Everybody says pay pay pay without leaving us to breathe a bit.
My opinion is that the world is again in turmoil.
When governments start to think only for money and political power a World War is imminent.Let's hope that will not happen to us too like those people 70 years ago.
We people of all the world must change the way we vote.(thinking)
First we must think what kind of world do we want to live in.
Sometimes i feel that human kind never learns the lessons of the past.

[ValoWay]

Originally Posted by Vatis1982

Do you want my opinion as a Greek?
Well most of EU citizens believe that Greece took all their money just to spend them like a sailor of a sub after 6 months patrol.
We(citizens) believe that our governments the last 30 years took all the money that EU gave to Greece just for themselves.(half true)
Our current government tries to pay all that but without struggling all of us(citizens).
EU(Now German rule) and IMF tries to take everything now without thinking of the people.
That's why most of us believe Angela Merkel's government (especially Soible) is a heartless and cruel .....bleep.
Everybody says pay pay pay without leaving us to breathe a bit.
My opinion is that the world is again in turmoil.
When governments start to think only for money and political power a World War is imminent.Let's hope that will not happen to us too like those people 70 years ago.
We people of all the world must change the way we vote.(thinking)
First we must think what kind of world do we want to live in.
Sometimes i feel that human kind never learns the lessons of the past.

Agreed. CDU (Merkel+Schaeuble) squeeze greece dry. And yea, with faces like erdogan+trump and all that right wing riff raff talk within the eu it does seem like turmoil.

[Sophia]

Its sought of nice to read such a thread because i always thought that it was Winston Churchill who passionately promoted the idea of a kind of 'United States of Europe', which Britain would take a leading role to help create. I thought thats why there was a building named after him at the European Parliament in Strasbourg. But then again..this was just my idea after reading some few books about the Euro formation.

[August]

My money is still on Napoleon as the original EU visionary.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

My money is still on Napoleon as the original EU visionary.

Yeah, before he got the boot off Wellington