Interesting.. why we believe in something..

Catfish · 05-04-17, 09:00 AM

..and why it may be complete bovine scatology:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

And that.. explains a lot

Sailor Steve · 05-04-17, 09:28 AM

That was good. I especially liked the "Tacos" dialogue. I have a minor problem, not with the presentation but that I was already familiar with all the questions he asked.

Still, it was fun.

Rockin Robbins · 05-04-17, 11:19 AM

Yes it lacked in surprise factor there....

The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine.

Platapus · 05-04-17, 01:58 PM

The Oatmeal is one of my favourites.

Some of his comics make me laugh
Some make me cry
Some even make me think (what the hell?)
But all are worth reading.. even the dumb ones.

Skybird · 05-04-17, 03:52 PM

Western psychoanalysis claims it is vital to form an ego (which in the first is true, we know many forms of psychopathologic syndroms that derive from ego constructions falling apart or being non-existend, being insufficient at least, and the result is always suffering). It also claims that it is impossible to avoid a causal linking between this cause and effect: we get a stimulus by perception or intellectual work, and we - do not just react, we JUDGE. We must judge, says psychoanalysis. We cannot evade it. Its a paradigm of Western psychology.

But if you are familiar with Eastern concepts of meditation and their underlying psychological models and concepts, then you know that in these different lineages, or in Buddhist thinking, the existence of an ego is seen as the cause of all suffering - and that by learning meditation one can learn to unlearn this automatic linking of cause and effect, sensory or intellectual input - and immediately judging it.

This is not meant to excuse unlimitedly and endlessly relativising things, excusing just anything to happen in an effort not to judge. That would be fatalism, and hinduism is full of it. See where it led them. What it means instead is to differ between observation, and judgement. Practically deciding we must, and we do it all the time, every day. And when we reject to decide, we still decide, like it was said that it is impossible to not communicating. One cannot not-communicate, and one cannot not-decide.

But when you have made it your automatic habit to differ between the two, perception/observation and judgement, you often find from then on that while you witness something to happen, see some person, observe an event, this now leaves you without reflex or desire to judge any longer. You may react, may intervene, may do something nevertheless - but maybe you find yourself doing so with a more sober mind, being less a victim of almost Pavlovian conditioning and resulting trained reflexes of "I perceive it, so I judge it".

Reacting, doing without getting emotionally aroused, engaged, is possible. It just takes some longer time to train this. I sometimes told people one of the main purposes of meditation is to learn to differ between the world as it is and the world we demand, expect, want it to be. Because if we judge something, somebody, we do so on the grounds of a standard that tells us that this event, this person either complies with said standard, or not. But the world does not and must not comply with pure intellectual brain-born standards of ours.

For it simply is like it is.

We must not necessarily want to judge. Determination in doing, and having our mind focussed on what we are doing right now - that is good enough. This is the meaning of true strength.

Two last words on all this: do not try now not wanting to judge. That does not work, will just get yourself entangled by your self. Be aware of that you judge when you judge - that in the long run will lead you to much greater good.

And second: do not mistake, as it is all too common in the West, psychological relaxation techniques and group sit-ins, with real meditation. The first is a feel-well-happening, the second is a struggle between life and death - and I mean it like this, and not any different at all.

Kptlt. Neuerburg · 05-04-17, 09:10 PM

It's funny because it's true... OR IS IT!!! DUN-DUN-DUNNNNNNNNNN.

vienna · 05-04-17, 11:15 PM

I didn't believe a single word of it...

<O>

Catfish · 05-05-17, 02:43 AM

Also explains why the first "truth" you hear, forms your mind. Anything that comes after this first "initiation" will be challenged by your own mind.

Was really astonished why this backfire effect works so "well".
Facts do not matter, if you hear of them too late.

05-04-17, 09:00 AM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,804 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Interesting.. why we believe in something.. ..and why it may be complete bovine scatology: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe And that.. explains a lot __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

05-04-17, 09:28 AM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	That was good. I especially liked the "Tacos" dialogue. I have a minor problem, not with the presentation but that I was already familiar with all the questions he asked. Still, it was fun. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-04-17, 11:19 AM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Yes it lacked in surprise factor there.... The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

05-04-17, 01:58 PM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,400 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	The Oatmeal is one of my favourites. Some of his comics make me laugh Some make me cry Some even make me think (what the hell?) But all are worth reading.. even the dumb ones. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-04-17, 03:52 PM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,718 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Western psychoanalysis claims it is vital to form an ego (which in the first is true, we know many forms of psychopathologic syndroms that derive from ego constructions falling apart or being non-existend, being insufficient at least, and the result is always suffering). It also claims that it is impossible to avoid a causal linking between this cause and effect: we get a stimulus by perception or intellectual work, and we - do not just react, we JUDGE. We must judge, says psychoanalysis. We cannot evade it. Its a paradigm of Western psychology. But if you are familiar with Eastern concepts of meditation and their underlying psychological models and concepts, then you know that in these different lineages, or in Buddhist thinking, the existence of an ego is seen as the cause of all suffering - and that by learning meditation one can learn to unlearn this automatic linking of cause and effect, sensory or intellectual input - and immediately judging it. This is not meant to excuse unlimitedly and endlessly relativising things, excusing just anything to happen in an effort not to judge. That would be fatalism, and hinduism is full of it. See where it led them. What it means instead is to differ between observation, and judgement. Practically deciding we must, and we do it all the time, every day. And when we reject to decide, we still decide, like it was said that it is impossible to not communicating. One cannot not-communicate, and one cannot not-decide. But when you have made it your automatic habit to differ between the two, perception/observation and judgement, you often find from then on that while you witness something to happen, see some person, observe an event, this now leaves you without reflex or desire to judge any longer. You may react, may intervene, may do something nevertheless - but maybe you find yourself doing so with a more sober mind, being less a victim of almost Pavlovian conditioning and resulting trained reflexes of "I perceive it, so I judge it". Reacting, doing without getting emotionally aroused, engaged, is possible. It just takes some longer time to train this. I sometimes told people one of the main purposes of meditation is to learn to differ between the world as it is and the world we demand, expect, want it to be. Because if we judge something, somebody, we do so on the grounds of a standard that tells us that this event, this person either complies with said standard, or not. But the world does not and must not comply with pure intellectual brain-born standards of ours. For it simply is like it is. We must not necessarily want to judge. Determination in doing, and having our mind focussed on what we are doing right now - that is good enough. This is the meaning of true strength. Two last words on all this: do not try now not wanting to judge. That does not work, will just get yourself entangled by your self. Be aware of that you judge when you judge - that in the long run will lead you to much greater good. And second: do not mistake, as it is all too common in the West, psychological relaxation techniques and group sit-ins, with real meditation. The first is a feel-well-happening, the second is a struggle between life and death - and I mean it like this, and not any different at all. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-04-17, 09:10 PM	#6
Kptlt. Neuerburg Admiral Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,281 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	It's funny because it's true... OR IS IT!!! DUN-DUN-DUNNNNNNNNNN. __________________ "When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat." - George Carlin

05-04-17, 11:15 PM	#7
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,722 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I didn't believe a single word of it... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

05-05-17, 02:43 AM	#8
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,804 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Also explains why the first "truth" you hear, forms your mind. Anything that comes after this first "initiation" will be challenged by your own mind. Was really astonished why this backfire effect works so "well". Facts do not matter, if you hear of them too late. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.