The Future of Money: None

[Castout]

I think in a resource-based economy the question we should ask ourselves is 'if we had everything we needed or if we had all the money in the world, what would we do?'

Perhaps our minds picture traveling the world, others may picture playing games all day, other perhaps sailing the world's oceans in a big yacht
but then what will we do...

Keep asking then what will we do and you will find that in each man there's a natural drive to improve himself, to make a better world.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Castout

Keep asking then what will we do and you will find that in each man there's a natural drive to improve himself, to make a better world.

None of the examples you mentioned involve improving the world, or ourselves. They all involve self-gratification. When you can convince the world that none of those things are necessary, or important, then maybe you can convince them that money isn't either.

[August]

I'd venture to say that the technology for mass production, indeed the whole industrial revolution itself would have never existed without money. There is just no way to gather the many resources, equipment and trained personnel required by any factory by barter alone. Therefore human society without money is limited to small agrarian and hunter gatherer groups where life is both difficult and short.

[Castout]

I think trying to explain this is a moot point when people don't want to think and keep asking the same thing. Plus, there's so much hostility when none is needed. The unwillingness to really think through this and repeating the same questions made it obvious that men have been so perverse that they believe money is a goal unto itself. We work for money so if there's no money we won't work....it's pathetic...the conditioning has been thought of being natural. The tyranny of money.

So let this thread be read and be reflected upon.

Money is what leading to self-gratification.

How? again by getting rid of money altogether and making everything free so we can produce what we can not what's affordable.

There's no such thing as reality in space-time. This is a dream. An interactive movie of sort. Don't ask. If you have to, you just won't get it. If you can't get a moneyless society you won't get that you're not real and that this is a merely interactive movie (or a dream, both the same thing) where nothing real can be imparted by us or to us.

Ugh, enough already!

"Listen, idiots, I'll tell you how things are, because reasons and some sketchy pseudo-philosophical yadda-yadda.
If you challenge my completely unfounded claims that I support by pulling things out of thin air, you are only blinded and corrupted by the lust for moneyz and therefore proof me right - no matter your argument! PS: God!"

Originally Posted by Castout

So let this thread be read and be reflected upon.

Ok - you first, please.


Seriously. I love topics like this - but not if your way of argumentation is the tactic chosen.
All you do is make the wildest claims and when challenged to explain how they'd work, you deny responsibility to do so, while trying to mark anyone who disagrees as some sort of a blind fool, unable to understand your, as rockin Robbins put it so brilliantly, "meaningless psychobabble".
Not how it works.

So far you, in my opinion, failed completely to deliver the slightest sort of argument to actually support your ridiculous claims, while others were able to challenge your claims with simple and solid arguments based on facts, not wishful thinking about utopia.

Reflect on that...

[Castout]

I haven't even argued anything...I let you live in your bubbles. I'm sorry for you.

There are no questions or argument worth discussing from my point of view. All I did was trying to explain the idea. There has never been any argument in the first place just people perceiving there are some arguments.

Back to my ignore list. What an uninspiring man.

Originally Posted by Castout

I haven't even argued anything...I let you live in your bubbles. I'm sorry for you.

Thank you for supporting what I just said...

Originally Posted by Castout

Back to my ignore list. What an uninspiring man.

Ugh, even worse.

"My views are criticized, ignore-list to the rescue!"

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Castout

Back to my ignore list. What an uninspiring man.

I find it hilariously ironic how you of all people silence people you don't agree with.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Castout

I think trying to explain this is a moot point when people don't want to think and keep asking the same thing.

And I think it's easier to dismiss what want to rather than actually think about the questions.

Plus, there's so much hostility when none is needed. The unwillingness to really think through this and repeating the same questions made it obvious that men have been so perverse that they believe money is a goal unto itself.

No hostility on my part, whatever you may tell yourself. I keep repeating the same questions because you keep repeating the same sermon without the slightest hint of how it's to be accomplished.

We work for money so if there's no money we won't work....it's pathetic...the conditioning has been thought of being natural. The tyranny of money.

What exactly would you work for? What would you contribute? Would you collect garbage or dig ditches just because it needs to be done?

Money is what leading to self-gratification.

Not at all. People see cool stuff like a boat or sports car and want one for themselves. If they can't have one they'll steal it...or work for it. "I'll work for you doing whatever you want for a specified period if you'll give me your boat." "I only have one." So how does the person go about getting his own? And guess what? If the other guy wants a boat it isn't money that motivates his desire, it's his longing for the boat. How does he get one?

How? again by getting rid of money altogether and making everything free so we can produce what we can not what's affordable.

And you repeat the same homily again without thinking about the real question. Not even the people you refer to can answer that.

Originally Posted by Castout

I haven't even argued anything...I let you live in your bubbles. I'm sorry for you.

No, you've preached, and expected people to accept without question. And now you stoop to accusing others of doing what you do yourself, i.e. "live in bubbles". Sorry for us? That's exactly the same as the Believer saying "I'll pray for you". It's arrogant and dismissive. As with any religion, I neither believe nor disbelieve, neither accept nor reject. But I do question everything, because without questions you can't get to the answers. You need to figure out exactly how this is supposed to work. Otherwise it's simple preaching and nothing else.

There are no questions or argument worth discussing from my point of view. All I did was trying to explain the idea. There has never been any argument in the first place just people perceiving there are some arguments.

Oh, but you have argued, over and over. Stating an idea and being willing to discuss it is one thing. Proposing that idea as "the only solution" is an argument in itself. You don't seem to have an answer for any of the hard questions, so you go back to repeating the same one idea. You accuse anyone who disagrees as lacking logic or not thinking it through, yet you don't seem to have actually thought about it at all, just repeated the Gospel that you've recently heard.

As for this all being a dream, I'm with Skybird. Please show us some evidence. Real, empirical evidence.

[Skybird]

Planned economy.

Abolition of private property.

One-party rule.

All people turning into reasonable, altruistic saints and messiahs.

Denial of all variety in man.

Denial of all shadow-sides in man.

Deindustrialization.

Thats what you talk about, Castout. And there is a name for all this except the last point: communism. Needless to say that freedom would be another victim of yours.

History has already given a substantial empirical judgement on communism. It failed, and terribly so.

[Skybird]

Once again, for a basic and quickly-to-gain basic overview on what money is (must be):

https://mises.org/system/tdf/What%20...&type=document

Its a brief and short read only.

Many textbooks say that money has several func-
tions: a medium of exchange, unit of account, or
“measure of values,” a “store of value,” etc. But it
should be clear that all of these functions are simply
corollaries of the one great function: the medium of
exchange.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Planned economy.

Abolition of private property.

One-party rule.

All people turning into reasonable, altruistic saints and messiahs.

Denial of all variety in man.

Denial of all shadow-sides in man.

Deindustrialization.

Thats what you talk about, Castout. And there is a name for all this except the last point: communism. Needless to say that freedom would be another victim of yours.

History has already given a substantial empirical judgement on communism. It failed, and terribly so.

Communism didn't do away with money and people were still paid money.

All those things you mentioned already exist in this world with money.

Deindustrialization? How?

I say revitalizement of industrialization with sustainability in mind.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by August

I'd venture to say that the technology for mass production, indeed the whole industrial revolution itself would have never existed without money. There is just no way to gather the many resources, equipment and trained personnel required by any factory by barter alone. Therefore human society without money is limited to small agrarian and hunter gatherer groups where life is both difficult and short.

And people have no rights under rigid authoritarian rule. Looking at American indian tribes before the white man came there were two things that dominated.

First was a destructive slash and burn agriculture. Wonder why we find those cliff dwellings out west with the houses all just abandoned in perfect shape? It's because moneyless societies take from the earth, they give nothing back. These tribes would set up their fields close to the Pueblo until they destroyed the ability of the dirt to raise crops. Then they'd abandon that tract and set up another further away. This went on until the crops were half a day from the city. Then the city was abandoned, the land for 30 miles ruined forever, even to this day. Much of the western desert was made by destructive moneyless societies who of course did not value the land.

Second was a warrior cult, where tribes warred with each other out of hundreds of years of tradition, raiding and killing their enemy tribes to take women and children, food and scalps. War was an everyday good part of life to the American indian, the worthiest man was the man who had killed the most other men in his lifetime. Of course this was not true with every single tribe, but was prevalent. It was very difficult to be a peaceful tribe when the others were looking to kill you.

We have erected fanciful stories of the "noble savage" and sought to emulate their body mutilations and other aspects of tribal life. Now I guess the new craze is the longing for a moneyless society. Stone age society has nothing we would wish for. Only stone age societies are moneyless.

Star Trek and other visions of future moneyless societies are nothing but delusions of madmen. I am richer than the greatest Roman Emperor. I have better food. I have running water in my house without lead poisoning. I live in a nation of laws, not the capricious whim of powerful men who are beyond the law. I can travel two thousand miles just by deciding to do so, and can support myself when I get there. My life expectancy is greater than 25 years. I will not be killed by a tribe that lives 30 miles away just because I am of my tribe. I can type this on a computer that I designed and built because money makes this possible.

The necessary result of no money is a hunter-gatherer society with no health care, no dependable food supply, no refrigeration, no heat, depending on raping the earth because they produce nothing. Show me a single exception.