DicheBach Questions

[DicheBach]

Any particular mods that include a Hogan's Alley?

I see that, many of the boats in Ralles have one of the compartments changed a bit (either added or changed from what it was in vanilla) and it is called "Crew Berth" (on the S-18). I think in the Salmon or Sargo class it is called "After Battery."

I'm not sure if those _are_ Hogan's Alley or what.

Those generally tend to comrpise about 9 slots, so that is enough to take the deck gun crew plus a couple of the DC but not enough for the whole deck watch for most ships.

So I'm guessing that these added/changed compartments are NOT "Hogan's Alleys?"

I'll be happy to do some testing, just . . . if an actual mod that adds additional space for crew to be moved "below decks" is around I'd like to have that running s I can redo from a specific save where there are one or two destroyers on hand with multiple different crew constellations.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by DicheBach

Any particular mods that include a Hogan's Alley?

I see that, many of the boats in Ralles have one of the compartments changed a bit (either added or changed from what it was in vanilla) and it is called "Crew Berth" (on the S-18). I think in the Salmon or Sargo class it is called "After Battery."

I'm not sure if those _are_ Hogan's Alley or what.

Those generally tend to comrpise about 9 slots, so that is enough to take the deck gun crew plus a couple of the DC but not enough for the whole deck watch for most ships.

So I'm guessing that these added/changed compartments are NOT "Hogan's Alleys?"

I'll be happy to do some testing, just . . . if an actual mod that adds additional space for crew to be moved "below decks" is around I'd like to have that running s I can redo from a specific save where there are one or two destroyers on hand with multiple different crew constellations.

Anything that has an area like what you describe in Bleiente's Soup, or TMO 2.5 has it too, I think... it's only been a few weeks since I played it, but I very seldom pay attention to the interface anymore... - but, I do distinctly remember the "After Battery" being described as one, as was "Crew Berthing". I can't remember off the top which mod called it "Hogan's Alley", but they all serve the same purpose, and you do have to manually drag the crew into the slots. Or should I say, ~I~ drag them into there...

[mikesn9]

Hogan's Alley is slang for After battery.

[DicheBach]

Originally Posted by mikesn9

Hogan's Alley is slang for After battery.

Ah cool beans.

So I got an S-18 that is out on patrol on my career and my last save had a KMCSHansa coming in to attack range. Easy spot to test from I guess. Only thing is, not enough space to put all the deck watch below decks but I guess enough to put some below decks.

So lets see here, we have a couple of hypotheses here:

1. damage to deck gun vicinity of sub while submerged with deck gun crew in deck gun crew slots = harm to deck gun crew. Easy falsification premise for that.

2. damage to deck watch vicinity of sub while submerged with deck watch crew in deck watch slots = harm to deck watch crew. Also easy enough to falsify.

No AA gun on that ship so cannot test that, but if the deck gun crew is getting hurt then I think it stands to reason the same thing will happen with the AA gun crew.

One last thing to consider, but I doubt it is a real issue:

3. damage to upper hull / deck vicinity of sub while submerged with damage control crew in damage control slots = harm to damage control team.

So I'll surface within about 1500 yards of the Hansa, draw his fire for a couple shots, then submerge to radar depth or slightly less deep and see what happens. Rinse repeat with crew in different constellations (i.e., moving a few guys into/out of the deck watch and deck gun slots and also the damage control if I see them take damage.).

ADDIT: prelimnary findings.

Method:

S-18 boat just north of Rabaul harbor, a save file from an ongoing career play up to early summer 42. I had spotted a lone merchant coming north from Rabaul just before I signed off last night. Interesting thing is: it seems to respawn as a slightly different class of ship when you reload from the save file. Last night it was a KMCSHansa, and today it has spawned at least once as an M3SHansa.

The distance at the actual career save is in the 15,000 ft ballpark (not sure why the deck watch officer reports visual contacts in feet . . .) but apparently that is too far for those drunken freighter crewmen to spot a sub.

I move toward the from their port bow approaching at about a 35-degree AOB. When I get to about 6000 feet I initiate a drive to Radar Depth. He still has not opened fire and apparently not even noticed me (I had to experiment with this a few times to get the desired effect, namely, he doesn't notice me and start firing until AFTER I'm at radar depth).

At 984 feet, I'm now past his midships port side, and moving behind him still at about the same angle. I haven't fired any shots. All but three of my deck watch crew are in their slots and one of the deck gun crew, the other four are in the "Crew Berth."

Once I fiddled with this a few times I realized, the trick is to get close enough that he starts shooting AFTER the ship is already at radar depth, and then to let him shoot ONLY until he causes damage. Pause and see where the damage is, make note, un-pause very briefly to see which crew are injured, pause again. Test over. Repeat. This is necessary because, if you let it keep running, it quickly becomes impossible to "correlate" damage that has been done to a particular section of the sub with harm to crew men. But it isn't too bad. He generally hits within 30 seconds of opening fire and reloading the save only takes a minute or so (btw, I have the save if anyone wants to try it themselves, though not sure which files have to be exchanged).

I've only run about 6 or 7 runs of the experiment.

Two or three were inconclusive, either because I didn't pause it soon enough, or I provoked him to open fire too soon (before I was at radar depth) and thus had sufered damage before the sub was mostly submerged. So out of that, only about 5 are truly valid tests.

Two of those were inconclusive because he got no hits within a minute or so of shooting at me, so I suspended the test. Here are the results of the three meaningful experiments:

Test; Compartment damaged; crew harmed

1. Control Room / control, sensor, damage control, deck gun
2. Engine Room / no one
3. Deck Watch Compartment / deck watch crew

Deck watch crew hurt


Deck Watch "compartment" damaged


So that is only a sample size of one, but it does suggest that:

Even when the sub is submerged, damage caused to the upper works of the ship (the deck watch "compartment" and devices there) causes (or has at least the potential to cause) harm to the deck watch crew.

Tiny sample size, and there are a lot of assumptions that are questionable, but on the whole: suggestive that my anecdotal observation is correct. Deck watch crew are NOT treated as being in an "interior" part of the ship while the ship is submerged and consequently they can be hurt when the ship suffers damage to the deck watch compartment.

[Sniper297]

My experience with depth charges close enough to kill crew members is that they usually wreck the sub anyway, so I never bothered looking for a way to protect the deck crew. One obvious option would be to select crewman with high numbers in mechanics, guns, and watch, put them on deck when surfaced and move them into the forward torpedo room and damage control when submerged. If you stop and think about it whenever you're reloading the tubes or repairing damage you're usually submerged anyway, so you don't need deck watch.

Other item that might be worth experimenting - \Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\UnitParts(subtype).upc seems to focus on the deck crew;

[UnitPart 1.Compartment 1]
CompartmentType= 1
StatusActive= Yes
ID= PorpoiseConnWatch
NameDisplayable= Deck Watch
Type=NULL
FunctionalType= ObservationRoom
MechanicalCoef= 0.2 ;0..1
ElectricsCoef= 0.2 ;0..1
GunsCoef= 0.2 ;0..1
WatchmanCoef= 1.0 ;0..1
WatchStandingCoef= 0.048
MaintenanceCoef= 0.0144
RepairsCoef= 0.072
ReloadingweaponCoef= 0.072
SleepCoef= -0.12
LeadersSlots=3
CrewMembersSlots= 9
EffciencyDenominator=4
EffciencyDenominatorBS=8
Hitpoints=200
CrewExposure=0.3
EquipmentsExposure=0.1
WeaponsExposure=0.1
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 31
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Minor damage, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Medium damage, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.5
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, Heavy damage, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 1

[UnitPart 1.Compartment 2]
CompartmentType= 2
StatusActive= No
ID= PorpoiseConnAA
NameDisplayable= AA Gun
Type=NULL
FunctionalType= FlakRoom
MechanicalCoef= 0.2
ElectricsCoef= 0
GunsCoef= 0.5 ;0..1
WatchmanCoef= 0.5
WatchStandingCoef= 0.048
MaintenanceCoef= 0.0144
RepairsCoef= 0.072
ReloadingweaponCoef= 0.072
SleepCoef= -0.12
LeadersSlots=0
CrewMembersSlots= 0
EffciencyDenominator=1
EffciencyDenominatorBS=1
Hitpoints=200
CrewExposure=0.3
EquipmentsExposure=0.1
WeaponsExposure=0.1
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 44
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Minor damage, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Medium damage, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.5
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, Heavy damage, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 1

;------------------------------------------------------------
; CREWMEMBER SLOTS
;
;
;Type= Officer ;for Officers slots, which should be located in the Command Room and give bonus to the entire unit
;Type= Leader ;for Leaders slots, which give bonus to the compartment
;Type= Crewman ;for crewmember slots, which work and get poor pay
;

Changing crew exposure to something like 0.01 MIGHT reduce how much exposure they have to getting wounded. I say "MIGHT" because I haven't tried it, and you have to keep in mind that SH4 is really SH3 with heavy modifications, and the ubisoft programmers didn't bother deleting half of the u-boat files and/or programming from SH3 which are not actually used.

Example;

[Unit]
ClassName=SSGato
3DModelFileName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato
HumanPlayable=YES
Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato
UnitType=200
MaxSpeed=21
MaxSpeedSubmerged=9
Length=95
Width=8.3
RenownAwarded=130

You would THINK that it's possible to change the max speed of the sub in that file, but it actually does nothing since the performance data used is in the NSS_Gato.sim file. SOME of the data in the (subtype).cfg file IS used, but other parts are ignored. Only way to find out is experiment with it.

[DicheBach]

I just got awarded a new command, a Sargo running out of Brisbane, which will be good with the Guadalcanal part of the game coming up. The S-18 and the Mk 10 torpedoes was fun, and June 42 is a bit early to be depending entirely on Mk 14s but I'll just shoot more and hit less (and use the deck gun more).

The crew configuration I am now using given I know that deck watch crew can be hurt even when submerged:



When I submerge in a combat context, the deck watch will move to the After Battery and empty engine room slots. When I need to use the surface guns, the highest rated guys from various places will get pulled.