US Politics Thread 2016-2020

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I think comparing Trump to Hilter has played itself out. I liken it to the FEMA death camps Obama was setting up. Get a grip.

You misunderstood my point, but I can see why.
My point wasn't to say trump is as worse as Hitler (of course not), it is the striking similarities when it comes to the naivety and mindset of both their voters.
Both promised the grass will be greener and both, at first, did work to fulfill their promises. That's not the problem. The problem are the people unable to see behind the "everything will be great again, I must know, sieg heil!" kind of promises and attitude.

Yes, all politicians lie, all politicians are selfish and very most would do whatever it takes to succeed. But not every politician is automatically a danger to world peace and economical stability combined with the diplomatic skills of a hooligan, despite being all of the above.

Trump, most likely - and judged by his verbal diarrhea, lies, hate speech and constant personal attacks towards other politicians like calling them ugly or making remarks about their primary reproductional organs or other things as well as his complete inability to even fake humility at least, let alone be diplomatic - is!

[Oberon]

Fascism Forever!

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

So, if everyone agreed with you, they would be politically sane? I see, I never knew opinion worked that way.

I'll say it again and leave it at this: Subsim is not biased to "Trump". Why would it be? Would someone please go through this thread and count the pro/anti posters,please?

There is no moderating direction that punishes people who find Trump distasteful, wrong, or dangerous. Same with anyone who feels Trump is the second coming of Christ. It appears to me the biggest complaining is coming from people who cannot get everyone else to endorse their worldview. And people are moderated when they cannot argue or discuss without losing their cool and making threats or violent personal attacks.

just to add to what Onkel Neal said, this is one of the better, well moderated U.S. politics thread on the internet. That is the main reason why I keep coming back.

Yes, it can be a circus at times. but on many other forums, you get insulted and shouted down as soon as you post a contrary position.

If you come in with good arguments and solid facts, you can usually get your point across.

OTOH, if you expect everyone to agree with your politics and think you can slide by just by insulting the other side, then yes, you are in for a rude awakening!

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

You misunderstood my point, but I can see why.
My point wasn't to say trump is as worse as Hitler (of course not), it is the striking similarities when it comes to the naivety and mindset of both their voters.
Both promised the grass will be greener and both, at first, did work to fulfill their promises. That's not the problem. The problem are the people unable to see behind the "everything will be great again, I must know, sieg heil!" kind of promises and attitude.

Yes, all politicians lie, all politicians are selfish and very most would do whatever it takes to succeed. But not every politician is automatically a danger to world peace and economical stability combined with the diplomatic skills of a hooligan, despite being all of the above.

Trump, most likely - and judged by his verbal diarrhea, lies, hate speech and constant personal attacks towards other politicians like calling them ugly or making remarks about their primary reproductional organs or other things as well as his complete inability to even fake humility at least, let alone be diplomatic - is!

Concerning the naivety and mindset of Trump voters, I believe you are overstepping. What are you basing your assumption on? The many I know who voted for Trump are anything but naive. The seig heil attitude was not different than the Hope/Change sieg heil and Obama will pay my mortgage attitude. Pay my mortgage? Naive certainly. Throw in the militant Black Panthers to boot.

I'm sorry you think Trump is a automatic danger to the entire world. Some hard choices need to be made for the US. The last 8 years was apology tours and bowing. In short, stagnant and non-committal. One man's opinion(me).

But it seems Trump has struck a chord with you because of his lack of tact, hate speech, etc. I agree. He says and does some of the most outlandish things. But what has Trump really done that past politicians have not done in one form or another? I get it, you don't like how Trump handles people. Political correctness and Trump are never used in the same sentence until now. However, all of that aside Trump still won the electoral college and the White House. It would seem people are more than willing to overlook and are completely fed up with where this country is going. Hillary was a very poor choice. They buried Saunder who would have probably won without issue. The Dems blew it.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Oberon

or without a firing a shot watch as China's economy tanks then let 1.38 billion angry people with no jobs do what the U.S. Navy cant do.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The Coffee Party?

I think the "Henny Penny's" would be a more apt moniker.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

My point wasn't to say trump is as worse as Hitler (of course not), it is the striking similarities when it comes to the naivety and mindset of both their voters.

That sounds very much like classic liberal arrogance, very tolerant of everyone else, but only if they agree with your viewpoint.

It is like the attitude towards Caitlin Jenner, she was a darling of the liberal/LGBT wing until they found out she suported Trump, now she is persona non grata.

First, you would have to be naive to think Clinton would have brought about paradise, as many of her supporter seemed to think.

Trump was not my first choice, I doubt he was for many conservatives, but he was certainly better than the alternative.

The basic mindset of many democrats is still to think that they lost the election because Trump voters were a bunch of "deplorables", when the reality is they ran a flawed campaign, led by a flawed candidate.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

They buried Saunder who would have probably won without issue.

Bernie?
Mr 'Socialist'?
Win...in America?

lol nope

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

or without a firing a shot watch China's economy tank its own people rise up and its government implode.

If you think that the people of the US would take a war, economic or otherwise, with China sitting down then...well...
So that would be two governments imploding.

Mutually Assured Implosion.

[Catfish]

Maybe Mrs Clinton was arrogant, I did not see a big difference to other presidents, when they spoke of their political enemies.
No doubt the campaign was probably awkward (was Trump's so good, in comparison?), or unprofessional, or dumb.
But then the (a)social media were never as strong as they are now. And every soapbox hero can claim what he wants, he who shouts loudest, wins.

Regarding lying everyone should by now be aware that Trump lied when he accused Clinton of everything bad under the sun. And that there is no evidence, from Benghazi to wherever, that she did something wrong.
http://www.mediamatters.org/research...d-facts/211240
Remember the court's decisions after all those accusations?

OK she is a democrat and Obama was, so she is the devil. Or at least not much liked her, or not enough. Arrogant. And everyone wanted something/someone else, ok. But was she really the worse alternative?

Trump has cracked more porcelain than anyone before him and already in ten days, bing tired of the political class this is of course funnyfor a lot of people, almost like watching and hearing Nigel F. How does this qualify for a statesman?

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Concerning the naivety and mindset of Trump voters, I believe you are overstepping. What are you basing your assumption on? The many I know who voted for Trump are anything but naive. The seig heil attitude was not different than the Hope/Change sieg heil and Obama will pay my mortgage attitude. Pay my mortgage? Naive certainly. Throw in the militant Black Panthers to boot.

I'm sorry you think Trump is a automatic danger to the entire world. Some hard choices need to be made for the US. The last 8 years was apology tours and bowing. In short, stagnant and non-committal. One man's opinion(me).

But it seems Trump has struck a chord with you because of his lack of tact, hate speech, etc. I agree. He says and does some of the most outlandish things. But what has Trump really done that past politicians have not done in one form or another? I get it, you don't like how Trump handles people. Political correctness and Trump are never used in the same sentence until now. However, all of that aside Trump still won the electoral college and the White House. It would seem people are more than willing to overlook and are completely fed up with where this country is going. Hillary was a very poor choice. They buried Saunder who would have probably won without issue. The Dems blew it.

Yes you observed that right.
I don't even care about trump, he is but a worthless oxygen thief to me and I am convinced this planet would be a better one without him, or his kind.

I care more about those who indeed not only accept this behavior, but even support it, acknowledge it by even raising him to power, instead of remembering why integrity, dignity and respect is of utmost value and importance for the office of the POTUS. No, they rather listened to right wing propaganda, luring them the easy way creating an enemy that shouldn't be one ("the Democrats "). I find it appalling and spineless. If I would vote a person like trump to power, I would feel ashamed for the rest if my life, because while I carefully mind not dropping an f bomb or be a "good Christian", I still betrayed all these values I claimed to hold dear and voted a scumbag into this office that once was so... Kinda holy.

/Rant

And yes, the Democrats completely defeated themselves, no doubt here. Hillary was the worst choice they could have made...

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Maybe Mrs Clinton was arrogant, I did not see a big difference to other presidents, when they spoke of their political enemies.
No doubt the campaign was probably awkward (was Trump's so good, in comparison?), or unprofessional, or dumb.
But then the (a)social media were never as strong as they are now. And every soapbox hero can claim what he wants, he who shouts loudest, wins.

Regarding lying everyone should by now be aware that Trump lied when he accused Clinton of everything bad under the sun. And that there is no evidence, from Benghazi to wherever, that she did something wrong.
http://www.mediamatters.org/research...d-facts/211240
Remember the court's decisions after all those accusations?

OK she is a democrat and Obama was, so she is the devil. Or at least not much liked her, or not enough. Arrogant. And everyone wanted something/someone else, ok. But was she really the worse alternative? To Trump?

For the votes that counted(electoral) would indicated yes, Hillary was the worse alternative.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Catfish

OK she is a democrat and Obama was, so she is the devil. Or at least not much liked here, or not enough. And everyne wanted something/someone else, ok. But was she really the worse alternative? To Trump?

the reality is that both parties ran flawed candidates.

If the GoP had run Jeb Bush, Christie or even Rand Paul, all of which were on my short list, we would not be having this discussion.

If the Democrats had picked a better candidate, instead of just crowning Clinton, they could have beaten Trump. Many good candidates just sat out the race, like Biden, Cuomo (NY Gov), Franken, Warren.

who knows, maybe Bernie could have won.

However, that is all monday morning quarter backing, the reality is Trump is POTUS for at least the next 4 years.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

That sounds very much like classic liberal arrogance, very tolerant of everyone else, but only if they agree with your viewpoint.

It is like the attitude towards Caitlin Jenner, she was a darling of the liberal/LGBT wing until they found out she suported Trump, now she is persona non grata.

First, you would have to be naive to think Clinton would have brought about paradise, as many of her supporter seemed to think.

Trump was not my first choice, I doubt he was for many conservatives, but he was certainly better than the alternative.

The basic mindset of many democrats is still to think that they lost the election because Trump voters were a bunch of "deplorables", when the reality is they ran a flawed campaign, led by a flawed candidate.

I am not a liberal. Weird, what does that say about your judgement?

And I never said Clinton would have brought paradise,but that's just typical. Tell you what: just because I'm against A doesn't mean I want B. Let that sink in.

And about the "certainly better choice"... Do I need to explain it?

Regarding what Democrats, or whoever, think, I don't know, nor do I care, I sure know that I do indeed see trump voters, many of them, as somewhat deplorable when we speak politics, it depends though. There are those who got fooled out of laziness, and then there are those who accept exactly what trump is, more so, support it. And THAT'S indeed a point where the word deplorable fits like a glove - in my opinion.
Why, that I explained in the posts above. I do not expect you or anyone to share this pov of course.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Yes you observed that right.
I don't even care about trump, he is but a worthless oxygen thief to me and I am convinced this planet would be a better one without him, or his kind.

I care more about those who indeed not only accept this behavior, but even support it, acknowledge it by even raising him to power, instead of remembering why integrity, dignity and respect is of utmost value and importance for the office of the POTUS. No, they rather listened to right wing propaganda, luring them the easy way creating an enemy that shouldn't be one ("the Democrats "). I find it appalling and spineless. If I would vote a person like trump to power, I would feel ashamed for the rest if my life, because while I carefully mind not dropping an f bomb or be a "good Christian", I still betrayed all these values I claimed to hold dear and voted a scumbag into this office that once was so... Kinda holy.

/Rant

And yes, the Democrats completely defeated themselves, no doubt here. Hillary was the worst choice they could have made...

It's ok to dislike a President. I have had my fair share. Just wonder what is "his kind".

Concerning propaganda, the Dems were not in short supply of that either. In fact, the news media was and still is stacked against Trump. Throw in the Hollywood elite as well. But Trump still won. Speaks volumes.

I can assure you the Trump supporters I know do not see Dems as the "enemy". That is conjecture on your part appearing to be driven by the media propaganda you speak of.

Now that we have stated our opinions let's turn the topic back to US politics and not what a douche bag Trump and his monkeys are. That has been established just about daily.