US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

So. The E-mail scandal is not lies that we had to deal with?

Can I send you my address? I really want some of that stuff you are smoking.

Face it.
No body elected gets some kind of Superman Suit that allows magic powers.
We elected ALL of them. From the local Mayor all the way up the ladder.
We did that by Law.
Under free will.
Majority rules and all that? It is what We have put in place and allowed.

As I said, I really have nothing to send you; clear mind, clear thought, and all that; but you do seem to have a personal knowledge of the substance(s), so I'm fairly sure you have your own sources

Yes, we all elect them, but just because they get elected, it doesn't mean we have to fully support them nor does it mean we can't hold them accountable for their actions or words. This idea is in something called the 1st Amendment; look it up, I'm sure it's still there...at least for now...

There is getting elected by fair, popular vote and there is getting elected by tinkering with the process. There is a myth that Trump is somehow the "people's choice". The popular vote for President, while it may not be the final arbiter, is, by far, the most accurate metric of the "will of the people". There are tons of polls of the electorate taken before the elections citing 'representative population samples' with all sorts of caveats and 'margins of error', but there is only one that is the true reflection of the voter's sentiment: the Election Day results; results that are the summation of single, individual voters, expressing their choices in private and with a finality not found in other polls, no 'margins of error' or caveat, just the plain, unvarnished results. In 2016, the actual voters, the citizens, spoke and a clear majority, 54.9%, voted for candidates other than Trump. Trump is not the People's Choice; this the voters made clear. Trump is not popular and has no real mandate from the voters. In fact, Trump wasn't even the popular choice among the GOP voters in the Party's primaries: 55.1% of GOP voters voted for candidates other than Trump, one percent more than the margin in the Presidential election. But, of course, Trump has declared he scored the greatest ever election victory, but the votes don't lie; Trump, however, does. He even lies about his Electoral college win saying it was a "massive landslide" when, in fact, his Electoral win only ranks 46th in the history of the US; Trump also has the third worst popular vote margin among Electoral winning candidates. The sparser attendance at Trump's inauguration is not an anomaly, it is a further indication the majority of American's are still not "Team Trump"...

One more thing: bringing up the E-mail scandal. Maybe someone didn't tell you, but Hillary Clinton is not the President neither are Bill Clinton or Obama. If the best that can be done is to refer back to some other person(s) and whatever they may have done or said to refute what is being said about Trump, then to quote your leader, that is "sad", "weak". What the Clintons, Obama, or anyone else may have done or said has no real relevance to what Trump says or does as President. If the prior failings of others is used to somehow justify or explain away the failings of Trump, then the takeaway is the continuation of failings is acceptable and should not be remedied. Since the cornerstone of Trump's sales pitch is the reform of the bad aspects of government, you know, "drain the swamp', he should not have any real failings to defend, much less failings on the level of those he and his minions so loudly criticize. What was that Biblical admonition about specks of sawdust in others' eyes and the plank in one's own?...

So, it would be nice, when trying to defend or explain the actions of the current President, who is relevant and important to the current and future fate of the US, instead of a recitation of the past wrongs, a verifiable explanation of why we should trust or believe or support Trump would be a better help. No one cited for past wrong is even running for office or in the White House; they don't matter. Trump is in the White House: His conduct does matter...greatly...



<O>

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Vienna,

I'm gonna be totally honest with you.
I poked fun at your comments just out of making a joke or 3.

Ya it was selfish and Trollish on my part.

So you up near the Golden Triangle?

No offense taken or bad feelings...

No, I'm in the Hellish Half, more precisely, Los Angeles, and, even more precisely, the Innermost Circle Of Hell, Hollywood. I was, however, born in San Francisco and lived there until I left shortly after I finished high school; I came to LA because I had a girlfriend here who later became my first ex. I do hope to someday soon to go back to San Francisco to finish out whatever days are left me...



<O>

[yubba]

[QUOTE=vienna;2459996]

[Yes, we all elect them, but just because they get elected, it doesn't mean we have to fully support them nor does it mean we can't hold them accountable for their actions or words. This idea is in something called the 1st Amendment; look it up, I'm sure it's still there...at least for now...]

Didn't Hillary mention Alex Jones and people like him should be shut down since now you want to protect the first amendment.

[There is getting elected by fair, popular vote and there is getting elected by tinkering with the process. There is a myth that Trump is somehow the "people's choice". The popular vote for President, while it may not be the final arbiter, is, by far, the most accurate metric of the "will of the people".]


Just because Hillary won a few Blue States with millions of more votes only means she won that state that's why we have a electorial college so a few sanctuary states don't dictate the whole of the country,,,,


[There are tons of polls of the electorate taken before the elections citing 'representative population samples' with all sorts of caveats and 'margins of error', but there is only one that is the true reflection of the voter's sentiment: the Election Day results; results that are the summation of single, individual voters, expressing their choices in private and with a finality not found in other polls, no 'margins of error' or caveat, just the plain, unvarnished results. In 2016, the actual voters, the citizens, spoke and a clear majority, 54.9%, voted for candidates other than Trump. Trump is not the People's Choice; this the voters made clear. Trump is not popular and has no real mandate from the voters. In fact, Trump wasn't even the popular choice among the GOP voter in the Party's primaries: 55.1% of GOP voters voted for candidates other than Trump, one percent more than the margin in the Presidential election. But, of course, Trump has declared he scored the greatest ever election victory, but the votes don't lie; Trump, however, does. He even lies about his Electoral college win saying it was a "massive landslide".]

polls mean nothing when people are afraid to speak their mind because of the liberal pc crap..




[One more thing: bringing up the E-mail scandal. Maybe someone didn't tell you, but Hillary Clinton is not the President neither are Bill Clinton or Obama.]

If you commit a crime you should be held accountable,, no matter who you are,, you are not special or above the law.

[ Trump's sales pitch is the reform of the bad aspects of government, you know, "drain the swamp', he should not have any real failings to defend, much less failings on the level of those he and his minions so loudly criticize. What was that Biblical admonition about specks of sawdust in others' eyes and the plank in one's own?...]

Didn't Nancy Pelosi then speaker of the house make the same sales pitch ???

[So, it would be nice, when trying to defend or explain the actions of the current President, who is relevant and important to the current and future fate of the US, instead of a recitation of the past wrongs,.Trump is in the White House: His conduct does matter...greatly...]

I guess it didn't bother you when Bill Clinton got sexual favors in the Oval office..

[vienna]

[QUOTE=yubba;2460005]

Originally Posted by vienna

[Yes, we all elect them, but just because they get elected, it doesn't mean we have to fully support them nor does it mean we can't hold them accountable for their actions or words. This idea is in something called the 1st Amendment; look it up, I'm sure it's still there...at least for now...]

Didn't Hillary mention Alex Jones and people like him should be shut down since now you want to protect the first amendment.

[There is getting elected by fair, popular vote and there is getting elected by tinkering with the process. There is a myth that Trump is somehow the "people's choice". The popular vote for President, while it may not be the final arbiter, is, by far, the most accurate metric of the "will of the people".]


Just because Hillary won a few Blue States with millions of more votes only means she won that state that's why we have a electorial college so a few sanctuary states don't dictate the whole of the country,,,,


[There are tons of polls of the electorate taken before the elections citing 'representative population samples' with all sorts of caveats and 'margins of error', but there is only one that is the true reflection of the voter's sentiment: the Election Day results; results that are the summation of single, individual voters, expressing their choices in private and with a finality not found in other polls, no 'margins of error' or caveat, just the plain, unvarnished results. In 2016, the actual voters, the citizens, spoke and a clear majority, 54.9%, voted for candidates other than Trump. Trump is not the People's Choice; this the voters made clear. Trump is not popular and has no real mandate from the voters. In fact, Trump wasn't even the popular choice among the GOP voter in the Party's primaries: 55.1% of GOP voters voted for candidates other than Trump, one percent more than the margin in the Presidential election. But, of course, Trump has declared he scored the greatest ever election victory, but the votes don't lie; Trump, however, does. He even lies about his Electoral college win saying it was a "massive landslide".]

polls mean nothing when people are afraid to speak their mind because of the liberal pc crap..




[One more thing: bringing up the E-mail scandal. Maybe someone didn't tell you, but Hillary Clinton is not the President neither are Bill Clinton or Obama.]

If you commit a crime you should be held accountable,, no matter who you are,, you are not special or above the law.

[ Trump's sales pitch is the reform of the bad aspects of government, you know, "drain the swamp', he should not have any real failings to defend, much less failings on the level of those he and his minions so loudly criticize. What was that Biblical admonition about specks of sawdust in others' eyes and the plank in one's own?...]

Didn't Nancy Pelosi then speaker of the house make the same sales pitch ???

[So, it would be nice, when trying to defend or explain the actions of the current President, who is relevant and important to the current and future fate of the US, instead of a recitation of the past wrongs,.Trump is in the White House: His conduct does matter...greatly...]

I guess it didn't bother you when Bill Clinton got sexual favors in the Oval office..

Who did or said what in the past, if there is anything legally actionable, either civilly or criminally, is a matter for the law to deal with; I do not condone any such actions; it is out of my hands and yours...

Absolutely nothing in your response explains, justifies, or excuses Trump's conduct or the conduct of his minions. It would be refreshing to have someone actually make a cogent argument, based solely on Trump's conduct and not just deflect and distract with blanket referrals to someone else's shortcomings; they do not currently sit in the White House; Trump does; that is a firm truth no matter who says it. If you expect people to support Trump, you're going to have to do a better sales job. Don't just keep telling us about what others have done in the past; start telling us, specifically, why we should overlook Trump's innate dishonesty and lack of suitability for office and just accept him for what he is: a hypocrite who calls for reform all the while continuing to engage in the very conduct, and worse, he claims to despise. If the best that can be said about Trump is he's as bad as those who came before him (if not worse), then, if his supporters voted for the election image of Trump, they've been swindled, big time; they just fell for the same old politics as usual, nothing new, nothing changed, and perhaps, far worse; same snake oil, different package, possibly worse results. So, come on, tell us, specifically, without distraction, deflection, and without invoking someone else as a sad, weak excuse, why anyone should trust, at face value, anything Trump does or says. Let's hear the sales pitch...

...then, again, I guess it hard to sell something when you have such a defective product...



<O>

[Buddahaid]

[QUOTE=vienna;2460018]

Originally Posted by yubba

Who did or said what in the past, if there is anything legally actionable, either civilly or criminally, is a matter for the law to deal with; I do not condone any such actions; it is out of my hands and yours...

Absolutely nothing in your response explains, justifies, or excuses Trump's conduct or the conduct of his minions. It would be refreshing to have someone actually make a cogent argument, based solely on Trump's conduct and not just deflect and distract with blanket referrals to someone else's shortcomings; they do not currently sit in the White House; Trump does; that is a firm truth no matter who says it. If you expect people to support Trump, you're going to have to do a better sales job. Don't just keep telling us about what others have done in the past; start telling us, specifically, why we should overlook Trump's innate dishonesty and lack of suitability for office and just accept him for what he is: a hypocrite who calls for reform all the while continuing to engage in the very conduct, and worse, he claims to despise. If the best that can be said about Trump is he's as bad as those who came before him (if not worse), then, if his supporters voted for the election image of Trump, they've been swindled, big time; they just fell for the same old politics as usual, nothing new, nothing changed, and perhaps, far worse; same snake oil, different package, possibly worse results. So, come on, tell us, specifically, without distraction, deflection, and without invoking someone else as a sad, weak excuse, why anyone should trust, at face value, anything Trump does or says. Let's hear the sales pitch...

...then, again, I guess it hard to sell something when you have such a defective product...



<O>

Wow! This should get interesting, or maybe not....

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by yubba

Like Hillary that has a trail of dead bodies behind her that a blind man could see,, a women that sold access to her while she was in office by to the highest bidder,that's called bribery, not too mention all the lies about Benghazi I hope she rots in prison..

Is this really all you're capable of? I agree with you about Hillary, but you were asked to justify Trump's lies, and your best response is to say "well, their side's worse!"?

Why can't you answer the question?

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I just love this.

[vienna]

^^



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[vienna]

That cartoon reminded me I saw this earlier today:

White House Pushes ‘Alternative Facts.’ Here Are the Real Ones:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/u...ite-house.html

He had still, he reflected, not learned the ultimate secret. He understood HOW; he did not understand WHY. Chapter I, like Chapter III, had not actually told him anything that he did not know, it had merely systematized the knowledge that he possessed already. But after reading it he knew better than before that he was not mad. Being in a minority, even a minority of one, did not make you mad. There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad.

George Orwell, 1984

<O>

[Aktungbby]

[QUOTE=Buddahaid;2460021]

Originally Posted by vienna

Wow! This should get interesting, or maybe not....

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Is this really all you're capable of? I agree with you about Hillary, but you were asked to justify Trump's lies, and your best response is to say "well, their side's worse!"?

Why can't you answer the question?

Our fearless leader nails it:

Originally Posted by OnkelNeal

....insane political threads where your IQ will be sucked dry,...

[yubba]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Is this really all you're capable of? I agree with you about Hillary, but you were asked to justify Trump's lies, and your best response is to say "well, their side's worse!"?

Why can't you answer the question?

http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/clinton-d...riguing-cases/

So what justified Hillary's lies,, oooh I know she lusted for power,, and she had too deliver on her bribes,,, If you say Trump lied it's up to you prove beyond a dought that he did if you are going to make such bold statements,, I have gone round in round with you and I do enjoy the battle and time after time you evade the issue of what was the great transformation of America was to be, you all had 8 years to do so and failed to explain it so a dummy like me could understand it,, where I stand the last administration led us down the wrong path to becoming a third world banana republic crap hole just look at Chicago.. I think the biggest lie said other than it was a video's fault,,was if you like your plan,, like your doctor you can keep them and save 2500 bucks I believe that Trumps any white lie Trump said.. If you care to explain those lies and I will see if I can defend our new President, so what faultshood did he convey that you are concerned about ???

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by yubba

If you care to explain those lies and I will see if I can defend our new President, so what faultshood did he convey that you are concerned about ???

The lies were listed in the ny times article Vienna posted on last page. (post #492)

A post you quoted and replied to.

You should probably click those links, so you wouldn't be so confused all the time what everyone is talking about.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by yubba

dummy like me

[yubba]

Originally Posted by Dowly

The lies were listed in the ny times article Vienna posted on last page. (post #492)

A post you quoted and replied to.

You should probably click those links, so you wouldn't be so confused all the time what everyone is talking about.

Don't get the alure of Globalism and why people think they got the right to rule over me,, to line their own pockets.

[yubba]

Originally Posted by Dowly

The lies were listed in the ny times article Vienna posted on last page. (post #492)

A post you quoted and replied to.

You should probably click those links, so you wouldn't be so confused all the time what everyone is talking about.

Sorry don't read the fake news of that liberal rag..