"VonDos & Co" shipyard! (big images!)

[VonDos]

Hi everyone!
As tradition, pre - release poster:



Best regards,
Vd

[radiator]

[gap]

Originally Posted by VonDos

Hi everyone!
As tradition, pre - release poster

Amazing, but what about the troop-transport version?

[VonDos]

Can't find enought info \ pics of final years troop transport version, so i don't know how it was :P

I've found pics of her with 2 funnels and "AMC masts", pics of her with 3 funnel and "civil masts" but with spaces for guns...









With no info, i prefere not risk..

Best regard,
Vd

Originally Posted by gap

Amazing, but what about the troop-transport version?

[gap]

Originally Posted by VonDos

Can't find enought info \ pics of final years troop transport version, so i don't know how it was :P

I've found pics of her with 2 funnels and "AMC masts", pics of her with 3 funnel and "civil masts" but with spaces for guns...

Quite obviously, the first three pictures in your last post show the ship in her pre-war configuration.
The last two pictures are compatible with what in this webpage is called "a ‘time-capsule’ of Queen of Bermuda memorabilia when she was a troop ship" (i.e. the pictures below):



and the pictures you had previously posted for references





In the same webpage Keith Baker, the discoverer of the ‘time-capsule’ pics, is said to be glad talking about them, and his contact details can be asked to the webmaster of the page. Maybe you can get in touch with him asking for more information and better scans of the pics. In any case, what I get from the pictures we have gathered so far is:

- only two funnels, as in the AMC version
- most of the big air vents removed/replaced with... mushroom-shaped turrets and other weird stuff (sorry, I cant be of more help on the meaning of those structures, but maybe someone else will )
- masts in the AMC configuration, but with a couple of kingpost cranes added forward, more or less where the foremast was in the liner version
- bridge in the liner (pre-war) configuration
- paint scheme as in the liner (pre-war) version, including the red funnels with black stripes
- no indications on the guns, but seeing how even civil merchants were armed at the times, I don't see why they would have removed them during the conversion from AMC to troopship apart from replacing the 6 in main batteries with smaller caliber guns maybe

[VonDos]

From 04 01 1943 to 12 31 1945 now she appear like this.

Best regards, Vd

ps I've added the small anchor crane near the bow to AMC and liner version also..

[Jeff-Groves]

Fantastic work!!

[the_frog]

Hi,

soory for commenting so late ...

On the picture with 3 funnels, pre-war mast and gun spaces she sports overall dark grey, likely "home fleet grey" (507A), and flies the White Ensign. That means at the time the picture was tanken, she was an AMC. The use of 507A as an overall colour coat is limited to the very early phase of the war.

I think, the pictures with 2 funnels and civil colours have been taken after the war (see also the civil passengers). Troopship in the late war never sported civil colours but were usually painted all grey (often the so-called Merchant Ship Side (Dark or Light) Grey). Just search for pictures of QM and QE. Also, troopship had only very few boat but a huge number of floats.


Cheers


P.S.: Jeff is absolutely right

[gap]

Originally Posted by the_frog

On the picture with 3 funnels, pre-war mast and gun spaces she sports overall dark grey, likely "home fleet grey" (507A), and flies the White Ensign. That means at the time the picture was tanken, she was an AMC. The use of 507A as an overall colour coat is limited to the very early phase of the war.

I noticed the White Ensign and the overall dark gray paint too, but anything else is in asin the liner version. That picture dates probably to sometime between the requisition of the ship by the Admiralty, and the completion of her conversion to an AMC

Originally Posted by the_frog

I think, the pictures with 2 funnels and civil colours have been taken after the war (see also the civil passengers). Troopship in the late war never sported civil colours but were usually painted all grey (often the so-called Merchant Ship Side (Dark or Light) Grey). Just search for pictures of QM and QE. Also, troopship had only very few boat but a huge number of floats.

Again, you are right. I was wondering the same as you about the paint scheme, too colorful for a troop transport, but I didn't notice the civil passengers. Sadly there are not pictures of neither Queen of Bermuda nor Monarch of Bermuda in their troopship version, but it is likely the pictures I have linked in my previous post were taken shortly after the war, before the reconverion to liner was completed (note the kingposts, and the third funnel stack missing).
By the way, this is a picture of QOB after war, for reference:



The website that it comes from, captions it as "The RMS Queen of Bermuda docked in Hamilton, Bermuda – 1950s"

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Fantastic work!!

Originally Posted by the_frog

P.S.: Jeff is absolutely right

[VonDos]

@the_frog, Jeff-Groves an gap, thanks!

What can i do for troop transport model? All gray, fewer boats and more floats?
Gray with all boats, no floats and wooden decks, like QM and Aquitania?





Tons of floats, normal boats and a "shocking" camo skin, like USS West Point? (a Deja Vu :P)



Or what?

Waiting for ideas

Best regards,
Vd

[gap]

Originally Posted by VonDos

@the_frog, Jeff-Groves an gap, thanks!

What can i do for troop transport model? All gray, fewer boats and more floats?
Gray with all boats, no floats and wooden decks, like QM and Aquitania?

Tons of floats, normal boats and a "shocking" camo skin, like USS West Point? (a Deja Vu :P)

Or what?

Waiting for ideas

Best regards,
Vd

Well, at this point is is just a matter of guessing. Personally I would opt for all gray (including the decks, as the AMC version), full load of lifeboats and tons of liferafts. A well done camo scheme is always a pleasure to look at in game, but considering that we don't know how it would have looked, and we are not even sure that the ship had one, maybe painting one is not worth all the work involved.

Considering that the ship had a sister, maybe you could customize HMS Monarch of Bermuda with slightly different features, for more visual variety

[the_frog]

Hmmm,

I just checked my collection of images. It seems ...

... there are no pictures of large British/Dominion liners showing a camouflage scheme. Those liners were all painted plain grey (likely 507B until 1942 or so, then in Merchant Ship Side Light or Standard). Wooden decks were never removed and only painted over (dark) grey when faded. Boats were often kept and multitudes of rafts added (usually in piles on the decks).

... in contrast, many if not all US troop transports were wearing at some point camouflage patterns. Wooden decks were kept as well but painted over in 20-B Deck Blue, as all other horizontal surfaces. Often, the number of boats was reduced and huge numbers of rafts were added, often attached to the sides of the superstructure.

So, if I remember right, most of your liner models have grey liveries included and the USS one is camouflaged; that one may receive a dark blue finish of the deck. The British/Dominion liners could probably receive a few more rafts. That's all.

Cheers

[gap]

Originally Posted by the_frog

Hmmm,

I just checked my collection of images. It seems ...

... there are no pictures of large British/Dominion liners showing a camouflage scheme. Those liners were all painted plain grey (likely 507B until 1942 or so, then in Merchant Ship Side Light or Standard). Wooden decks were never removed and only painted over (dark) grey when faded. Boats were often kept and multitudes of rafts added (usually in piles on the decks).

... in contrast, many if not all US troop transports were wearing at some point camouflage patterns. Wooden decks were kept as well but painted over in 20-B Deck Blue, as all other horizontal surfaces. Often, the number of boats was reduced and huge numbers of rafts were added, often attached to the sides of the superstructure.

So, if I remember right, most of your liner models have grey liveries included and the USS one is camouflaged; that one may receive a dark blue finish of the deck. The British/Dominion liners could probably receive a few more rafts. That's all.

Cheers

Very precise and detailed, as usual, your arguments are unexceptionable

What about the gun outfit? Was there any "standard armament" for British troopships?

[the_frog]

... gun outfit of British liner-type troopships? ... very good question ...

On most pictures, hardly any gun is visible. QE/QM carried some AA guns; some sources point at 40 mm Bofors, fitted in the US. Those ships primary protection was their speed.

The slower ships rarely travelled alone, and so their protection against surface attacks was their escort. So my guess, they likely had few or no low angle weapons but a good number of AA-capable guns.

[gap]

Originally Posted by the_frog

So my guess, they likely had few or no low angle weapons but a good number of AA-capable guns.

Thank you mate

One last question: talking about British/Commonwealth troop transports, what would have been in your opinion a realistic proportion between 40mm and other, smaller caliber, AA guns. We know how much more effective Bofors guns were, but I think other factors, like war shortages and weight distribution, would have been taken into account just as well