The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar - Page 159

Rockstar · 12-20-16, 11:50 AM

Most of what Erdogan did was to solidify his position by purging Gulen followers from theirs making Gulen very much less of a thorn in Erdogans side than some might think. Gulen is a nobody now a thing of the past in Turkisk politics getting a hold of him would just be icing on the cake.

Gulen is welcome to stay here if he wants to request political asylum fine. But if he wants to start talking smack and think he can establish his operations over here in my country. Then I say good riddance get rid of the bum and self proclaimed islamic prophet and send him back where he came from.

Skybird · 12-20-16, 02:07 PM

Berlin , now 12 dead.

Jimbuna · 12-20-16, 02:24 PM

The suspect has just been released due to lack of evidence...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38385961

The German authorities must be desperate for leads lest they begin to look foolish and Merkel will probably be thanking her lucky stars no refugee/asylum seeker was involved (up to this moment in time).

Oberon · 12-20-16, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

no refugee/asylum seeker was involved (up to this moment in time).

Pfft, that won't last.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 12-20-16, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has vowed to punish those responsible for the attack "as harshly as the law requires".

In teresting wording "as harshly as law requires". Oh, how terrifying...

What is the minimum penalty which "law requires" for mureder and/or terrorist attack in Germany?

Rockstar · 12-20-16, 03:45 PM

Probably her words were chosen to remind potential vigilante mobs not to take matters into their own hands. That the nation has laws which deal with crime such as this.

em2nought · 12-20-16, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Probably her words were chosen to remind potential vigilante mobs not to take matters into their own hands. That the nation has laws which deal with crime such as this.

Yep, what a terrible thing it would be if Germans started fighting back.

Oberon · 12-20-16, 04:36 PM

Exactly! Nothing like a good old bit of indiscriminate violence to celebrate the holiday season!

Skybird · 12-20-16, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Probably her words were chosen to remind potential vigilante mobs not to take matters into their own hands. That the nation has laws which deal with crime such as this.

have we...? I wouldn't be so sure of that. Myself as well as my mother have made experiences with how the law may awfully dissapoint this assumption. There is a reasonw hy I do not out high expectatiosn or trust into german laws.

Next, there are the experts who always see reason to give a relativising excuses or a positive social future perspective to ease a penalty. Foreigners arriving in Germany repeatedly have mocked Germany in past months for its prisons being "holiday resorts" and beign senm tenced to prison comparing to making holidays, comparing to what they are used to. By the laws, thosuands and thosuands already shoulkd nhave been deprted again - fact is that so far only 800-900 have been removed after their asylum procedures had en ded and were rejected. In parts federal state governments openly violate the will of the central government and violate their own laws.

And finally, to have a law does not mean one automatically has the means to enforce it. German police is in desperately hidden withdrawel from organised crime and criminal family clans enriching us multiculturally in cities like Berlin, Essen, and the Ruhrgebiet area, and regarding this attack in Berlin now the police already yesterday late night admitted that if the person they arrested back then would not be the one they were looking for, police then would find it difficult to do anything more - there are almost no clues and no hot traces. Their call to the public today to bring in (to the police) any cellphone videos that maybe were shot of the van and its cockpit and drivers, had the echo of desperation around it.

Honestly said I think they have no clue and do not know currently what to do.

Rockstar · 12-20-16, 06:53 PM

Then again I could be wrong.

Skybird · 12-21-16, 05:51 AM

They found an ID card - at least kind of an ID paper - in the van's cockpit.

Could one believe that luck? Is this for real, of has it been intentionally placed there, to lure the hunters on a wrong track?

Anyway, police now is hunting a 23 year old Tunesian.

P.S. The guy seems to be no nobody. He is knwon to the police, uses four different names and had a status of exceptional leave to remain, means his asylum demand was refused but his stay was tolerated nevertheless. Over here, refused applications for asylum does not automatically mean that people get deoprted. The overwhelming majoirty, almost all of them, nevertheless stay for years to come, and often forever.

In other words: the German asylum laws are laws with pretty small, if any, teeth. Additional to that we do not scan for people whose skills and talents we really could need, like they do in Canada, Australia or the US. We just take everybody. And that is the reason why we get so many of those who already gfailed to make it in their own countries. The vast majority of migrants of the past 18 months have not been fleeing from war.

For Merkel, this is no good news. However, the people in Berlin are described like I would have expected: "maximally unimpressed". Its part of the Berliner Schnauze.

Jimbuna · 12-21-16, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

They found an ID card - at least kind of an ID paper - in the van's cockpit.

Could one believe that luck? Is this for real, of has it been intentionally placed there, to lure the hunters on a wrong track?

Was wondering that myself

Either one huge mistake or a gigantic red herring

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38392128

Von Due · 12-21-16, 08:40 AM

The ID question is a good one indeed. Consider 2 possibilities:

1) ISIS really is behind the attack and it was planned by core people. They do have people in the command strucure who held high ranks in Saddam's military intelligence and they would know the red herring game as good as any intelligence officer elsewhere. The fact that some in the command structure are still only known by their aliases and not their real names shows that these guys are well capable of clever ploys to outwit investigators. Red herring ID is absolutely a possibility.

2) ISIS took responsibility while not being actually responsible, and the attack was performed by an amateur (relatively speaking). This is also absolutely a possibility.

It is basically impossible for anyone outside the intelligence community to say anything with any meaningful degree of certainty. It is also quite possible that the ID info that got to the media is itself a red herring planted by the investigating bodies. In the hush hush game, very few things are what they appear to be to the public.

Skybird · 12-21-16, 12:06 PM

The website of the Bundeskriminalamt BKA (=German FBI) where they had placed the public all-points bulletin was taken down by a cyberattack short time after the warrent had been posted by the BKA. Seems the BKA could not even defend itself anymore!?

From the radio: some lefty politician or party member has crept forward and indicated that no asylum seeker should have his request rejected and be deported anymore, since this holds the risk that he turns desperate, radicalises himself in no time and starts to mass-kill civilians.

Lovely. Why am I not surprised of the direction this kind of reasoning was coming from...

Lesson to be learned: violence, and threatening violence, should pay off.

Oberon · 12-21-16, 03:05 PM

Let them indicate, so long as it doesn't go any further than that. Politicians will be politicians. It's a daft idea anyway.
Of course, in regards to sending unaccepted asylum seekers back is that you wind up playing asylum tennis as the country that you send them to sends them straight back again. When you get these stateless individuals stuck between the cracks of the system, you have a problem that cannot easily be solved.

12-20-16, 02:07 PM	#2372
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Berlin , now 12 dead. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-20-16, 02:24 PM	#2373
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,059 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The suspect has just been released due to lack of evidence... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38385961 The German authorities must be desperate for leads lest they begin to look foolish and Merkel will probably be thanking her lucky stars no refugee/asylum seeker was involved (up to this moment in time). __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-21-16, 05:51 AM	#2381
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	They found an ID card - at least kind of an ID paper - in the van's cockpit. Could one believe that luck? Is this for real, of has it been intentionally placed there, to lure the hunters on a wrong track? Anyway, police now is hunting a 23 year old Tunesian. P.S. The guy seems to be no nobody. He is knwon to the police, uses four different names and had a status of exceptional leave to remain, means his asylum demand was refused but his stay was tolerated nevertheless. Over here, refused applications for asylum does not automatically mean that people get deoprted. The overwhelming majoirty, almost all of them, nevertheless stay for years to come, and often forever. In other words: the German asylum laws are laws with pretty small, if any, teeth. Additional to that we do not scan for people whose skills and talents we really could need, like they do in Canada, Australia or the US. We just take everybody. And that is the reason why we get so many of those who already gfailed to make it in their own countries. The vast majority of migrants of the past 18 months have not been fleeing from war. For Merkel, this is no good news. However, the people in Berlin are described like I would have expected: "maximally unimpressed". Its part of the Berliner Schnauze. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-21-16 at 06:12 AM.

12-21-16, 12:06 PM	#2384
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The website of the Bundeskriminalamt BKA (=German FBI) where they had placed the public all-points bulletin was taken down by a cyberattack short time after the warrent had been posted by the BKA. Seems the BKA could not even defend itself anymore!? From the radio: some lefty politician or party member has crept forward and indicated that no asylum seeker should have his request rejected and be deported anymore, since this holds the risk that he turns desperate, radicalises himself in no time and starts to mass-kill civilians. Lovely. Why am I not surprised of the direction this kind of reasoning was coming from... Lesson to be learned: violence, and threatening violence, should pay off. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-20-16, 11:50 AM	#2371
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Most of what Erdogan did was to solidify his position by purging Gulen followers from theirs making Gulen very much less of a thorn in Erdogans side than some might think. Gulen is a nobody now a thing of the past in Turkisk politics getting a hold of him would just be icing on the cake. Gulen is welcome to stay here if he wants to request political asylum fine. But if he wants to start talking smack and think he can establish his operations over here in my country. Then I say good riddance get rid of the bum and self proclaimed islamic prophet and send him back where he came from.

12-20-16, 03:45 PM	#2376
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Probably her words were chosen to remind potential vigilante mobs not to take matters into their own hands. That the nation has laws which deal with crime such as this.

12-20-16, 04:36 PM	#2378
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Exactly! Nothing like a good old bit of indiscriminate violence to celebrate the holiday season!

12-20-16, 06:53 PM	#2380
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Then again I could be wrong.

12-21-16, 08:40 AM	#2383
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	The ID question is a good one indeed. Consider 2 possibilities: 1) ISIS really is behind the attack and it was planned by core people. They do have people in the command strucure who held high ranks in Saddam's military intelligence and they would know the red herring game as good as any intelligence officer elsewhere. The fact that some in the command structure are still only known by their aliases and not their real names shows that these guys are well capable of clever ploys to outwit investigators. Red herring ID is absolutely a possibility. 2) ISIS took responsibility while not being actually responsible, and the attack was performed by an amateur (relatively speaking). This is also absolutely a possibility. It is basically impossible for anyone outside the intelligence community to say anything with any meaningful degree of certainty. It is also quite possible that the ID info that got to the media is itself a red herring planted by the investigating bodies. In the hush hush game, very few things are what they appear to be to the public.

12-21-16, 03:05 PM	#2385
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Let them indicate, so long as it doesn't go any further than that. Politicians will be politicians. It's a daft idea anyway. Of course, in regards to sending unaccepted asylum seekers back is that you wind up playing asylum tennis as the country that you send them to sends them straight back again. When you get these stateless individuals stuck between the cracks of the system, you have a problem that cannot easily be solved.