75th anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

[Aktungbby]

Considering that Pearl Harbor was partially the delayed result, set in motion, of Teddy Roosevelt, former assistant SEC of Navy sending the Great White Fleet in 1907:

In the early years of the 20th century, Pearl Harbor remained more of an outpost than the major naval base it would become in the years leading up to World War II. The islands had no oil or coal, and U.S. ships did not make it a permanent base. “Everything the Navy needed had to be imported from the West Coast,”
It was a high point for the Navy and American global power. President Theodore Roosevelt ordered the Great White Fleet, consisting of 16 battleships, to circumnavigate the globe in 1907. Among the young officers participating in the cruise was Adm. Husband Kimmel, who would be commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet when Pearl Harbor was attacked more than three decades later.
The base expanded gradually during the early part of the 20th century. By 1911, the channel to Pearl Harbor had been dredged enough to allow large vessels to navigate it, according to the Navy history. The USS California was the first deep-draft ship to navigate the channel. It is forgotten that Kimmel's fleet was not there to protect Pearl Harbor. The Harbor was there merely as a fuel and supply base for it. That fleet had a task assigned to it in case of war. The protection of the base would be the duty of the army and the base naval installations. We do not know what the task assigned to Kimmel was. But it is certain that had the Japanese overlooked Pearl Harbor and struck at the Philippines or Singapore alone, Kimmel and his fleet would have been off to sea instantly. Kimmel was preparing for the war task assigned to him, not merely for the protection of Pearl Harbor.

http://nypost.com/2016/12/05/japanese-prime-minister-to-visit-pearl-harbor-for-the-first-time/

“President Obama will meet with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Honolulu, Hawaii, on December 27, 2016. The meeting will be an opportunity for the two leaders to review our joint efforts over the past four years to strengthen the US-Japan alliance, including our close cooperation on a number of security, economic, and global challenges,” a statement from the White House press secretary announced Monday morning.
“The President will also accompany Prime Minister Abe to the USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor to honor those killed. The two leaders’ visit will showcase the power of reconciliation that has turned former adversaries into the closest of allies, united by common interests and shared values,” the announcement added.

https://www.antiwar.com/rep/flynn1.html It only remained for his distant cousin, also an assistant SEC of the Navy, Franklin Roosevelt to finish the job..

There is a story of profound importance yet to be told about the state of peace so far as America was concerned before Pearl Harbor. Certainly we had not declared war. But we had sent an army across the sea to Iceland to join the British army there; we had been sending arms, ammunition and destroyers and planes as a gift to Britain and France and China. We had been with our warships hunting down German submarines for British planes and even bombing them. On November 25, W. Averill Harriman, the President's agent in London, said: "The United States Navy is shooting the Germans – German submarines and aircraft at sea." And on September 20, 1941, a dispatch from Hyde Park reported that "More than half of the United States Navy is forced to remain in the Pacific at a time when the United States is operating against German and Italian submarines and air raiders in the Atlantic." In the Pacific we had cut off all shipments and trade of essential materials with Japan and frozen and seized here $130,000,000 of her funds, which Walter Lippmann called "a declaration of economic warfare." We had sent an American military mission to China and an American economic adviser to Chiang Kai-shek. We had sent General Chennault with a large number of American army fliers to China to fight with Chiang's army. His intrusions into operations of the Navy were more frequent because, while Roosevelt had, under the influence of flatterers who surrounded him, come to think of himself as a master of diplomacy, an expert in political economy, an adept in political manipulation, a wizard in public finance, a profound student of foreign affairs and a military strategist of large dimensions, he regarded himself as little less than a genius in naval organization and direction. At the Atlantic Charter meeting, Churchill had urged Roosevelt to send an ultimatum to Japan at once. He replied saying: "Let me baby her along for another three months."

GEN Short and ADM Kimmel should each get their two stars back posthumously; and FDR should be impeached posthumously. Lesson learned: no one should be president for four terms and no war ever planned is ever fought on 'PLAN A'! We learned this the hard way at Pearl Harbor; the Japs would learn it the very next year at Midway....ironically using ADM Kimmel's plan!

[Rockin Robbins]

Had it not been for FDR, violating the Constitution, taking powers not his, seeing the real situation of the world and doing what was necessary, we probably would have sat out the war and watched the Nazis take over Europe and appeased Japan to do whatever we had to to stay out of war.

To my mind, Roosevelt was a hero, doing what heroes do: ignoring the rules and doing the right thing in spite of them. Imagine having to fight both the Germans and the Japanese five or ten years later. And the would have happened.

Thank God Roosevelt made the decisions to pay the price of victory while we could still afford it.

[Skybird]

"Certainty" will probably never be known about what led to Japan'S decision to strike at Pearl Harbour. As they say: history is written by the victor, he makes sure his history becomes legend, and legends tend to become myth if given enough time.

That Japan and America stand together against NK and CHN - that is what counts now. Not the dead past.

[August]

Hitler to Tojo Dec 8th 1941: "I told you to attack the usSR not the usA Dumkopf!"

[Catfish]

From AktungBby, quoting
John T. Flynn, October 1945 –

To back up what i wrote to Jim regarding the sinking of the »Reuben James« in the "This date in history" thread:

"There is a story of profound importance yet to be told about the state of peace so far as America was concerned before Pearl Harbor. Certainly we had not declared war. But we had sent an army across the sea to Iceland to join the British army there; we had been sending arms, ammunition and destroyers and planes as a gift to Britain and France and China. *We had been with our warships hunting down German submarines for British planes and even bombing them."

*Before a declaration of war. The sinking of the »Reuben James« by Topp did not happen intentionally. It was not even a retaliation.


Back on topic, regarding Pearl Harbour and what was known, or expected "The cruise of the Lanikai" is also an interesting book.

Saw this over at SimHQ, interesting pictures, though one seems a bit off:
http://mashable.com/2016/12/07/attac.../#925G9NkMokqs

[Mr Quatro]

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December seventh, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.

Franklin D. Roosevelt, The White House
December 8th, 1941

[fireftr18]

Events we must always remember. More importantly, remember the events that lead up to the attack.

A big thank you and salute to those who fought in the war to secure freedom for the world.

[Oberon]

The Japanese certainly displayed 'professional brilliance' and 'technological power'.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Had it not been for FDR, violating the Constitution, taking powers not his, seeing the real situation of the world and doing what was necessary, we probably would have sat out the war and watched the Nazis take over Europe and appeased Japan to do whatever we had to to stay out of war.

To my mind, Roosevelt was a hero, doing what heroes do: ignoring the rules and doing the right thing in spite of them. Imagine having to fight both the Germans and the Japanese five or ten years later. And the would have happened.

Thank God Roosevelt made the decisions to pay the price of victory while we could still afford it.

Pretty much how I see it and the majority of the UK I should imagine

[gimpy117]

after I posted I looked up a documentary, and according to it, the last one WAS found and it was in a bunch of debris that was scooped up after the explosion in the west lock in 44'



the assumption, assuming this documentary has any validity, is that the 5th sub made it in, fired, and hid in the west lock for a time before scuttling underwater knowing that there was little chance of escape due to the naval base being on alert. there it lay until the west lock had a large accident and was picked up when items from that disaster were quickly removed to save face and get the west lock operational

[nikimcbee]

http://i-16tou.com/

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

http://i-16tou.com/

Fascinating!

The conning tower hatch was found to be unlocked (without a special wrench, it could only be unlocked from inside), and no trace of the crew within. Only a set of coveralls and a pair of shoes (now on display at a shrine on the grounds of the JMSDF Officer's Candidate School in Eta Jima, Japan) were found inside. It has not been proven but indicators suggest that the crew abandoned their sub in quiet waters up against the O'ahu coastline. At that point, they vanished from history. It is possible that the crew drowned while making their way to shore, or that they were shot by US patrols and their bodies dumped in a common grave. But was there another possibility? Could they have possibly escaped from their sub and made their way ashore; if so, what then? On one of the charts recovered from Sakamaki's boat,marke a house in Pearl City near the PAA Clipper landing, owned by Dr. Yokichi Uyehara, was described as "Uyehara sanitarium rakuzanso ("happy mountain retreat"). Nearby, a "boat landing" and a "white man's house" are marked for the submariners' information

this map was instantly recognisable as an escape and evasion map. Why else would a submariner need to know how to get around O'ahu on foot? On the back of one of the charts, there is an interesting handwritten notation. Under the heading, "Articles to carry when escaping," two methods for leaving the sub are detailed: first, when alongside the mother sub; second, when going ashore. If the crew was going aboard the mother sub, they were to wear their service uniform. If going ashore, then they were instructed to go naked (the assumption here is that they would strip down to their traditional undergarment, the fundoshi)....It also helps to explain the set of coveralls found in the sub raised from the Keehi Lagoon (spare coveralls were not carried aboard the midget subs, so someone left without their clothes). Those crewmembers were evidently following their escape directions. I asked Vice Admiral Kazuo Ueda about the reasoning behind the instruction to go ashore naked and his response was that it would make it easier for the crew to blend in with the Japanese population on the island.

Well I've mellowed with the years and good submarining is good submarining! Those torpedo tubes are empty and 'rusticle' data indicates they were fired. And, if the rooster-tailing midget sub #5 in my video post above-probably torpedoing the USS West Virginia- made it to the West Loch to lay low after sending a 'success' signal 12 hours after the attack; and the crew later unlocked their hatch and abandoned their coveralls for a mile swim to shore and then, in their skivvies to Dr. Yokichi Uyehara's 'happy house' in Pearl City....we have a pretty cool movie plot here! & < 1 unexploded sub 1000lb torpedo was recovered inside Pearl. Airborne torpedoes were 500 lbs....One dud and one hit on the USS West Virginia imho. For the record: Dr Urehara was a Tokyo medical school grad and 1917 immigrant to Hawaii, whose 1930 purchase water-front home directly on Pearl Harbor had been a meeting place for visiting Imperial Navy Japanese officers. Letters were found in his home reminding him of his duty to his 'mother country'. He was arrested in Feb 25, 1942 by the FBI, having fled to his hospital's basement after the attack.....No details of the outcome are recorded.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Had it not been for FDR, violating the Constitution, taking powers not his, seeing the real situation of the world and doing what was necessary, we probably would have sat out the war and watched the Nazis take over Europe and appeased Japan to do whatever we had to to stay out of war.

To my mind, Roosevelt was a hero, doing what heroes do: ignoring the rules and doing the right thing in spite of them. Imagine having to fight both the Germans and the Japanese five or ten years later. And the would have happened.

Thank God Roosevelt made the decisions to pay the price of victory while we could still afford it.

Credit also the defiant Spirit and leadership of Winston Churchill and the skill of their Pilots, Spitfire pilots included for " holding down the fort " until the U.K was able to take the offensive. It was always Churchill and Roosevelt and their respective countries who were the leadership of the allies.