Just had my first ever submarine experience. How did they communicate with the world?

[CaptBones]

Uhhmmmm…folks…it seems to me that we’re mixing a lot of apples and oranges, adding a few pomegranates and then throwing in an avocado or two for good measure.

First, it would be helpful to remember that there are huge differences in the technologies, strategic employment and tactical operations of WWII submersibles and Cold War submarines. There are also significant differences between today’s submarines and those in service during most of the Cold War.

Second, we should also keep in mind that the WWII German and US submarine forces were very different in many of the ways they operated, but similar too. Not to mention that there are even greater differences between the operational doctrines of today and during the Cold War, and those of any/all WWII submarine services.

So…perhaps we should be clear about the era we’re writing about with each comment we’re writing. Let’s start with this:

Q: “…but do you have an example of how they tactically rose to the surface without being detected by nearby enemies?

A: Which “they” are you referring to? Considering submarines in WWII, “they” didn’t. In general, you wouldn’t surface close to the enemy unless you’re; a) critically damaged and intend to surrender (or fight it out and die valiantly) or; b) “the enemy” is a lone unarmed merchant vessel you’re going to engage with deck gun or; c) it’s the middle of the night and you’re going to engage on the surface.

Q: Say the submarine needed a status update before committing to strike, how would they go about getting this information?

A: That doesn’t really fit in with WWII submarine warfare; what kind of “status update” are you thinking would be needed? To quote Dudley W. Morton; “Find ‘em, chase ‘em, sink ‘em.” Despite the differences in operational methods, the German and American submariners both essentially followed that doctrine. The biggest difference was in the German “Wolfpack” method of operation. There, the gathering and concentration of units to attack a convoy was coordinated and controlled by the HQ Command ashore and that did depend on a steady stream of 2-way communication between the individual U-Boats and BdU. Unless detected by the enemy, the boats would travel to the designated intercept position on the surface and would get updated reports on the convoy and orders from HQ by Enigma-encrypted radio messages (good scenes of that in “Das Boot”). That turned out to be an Achilles heal though; radio direction finding equipment was finally installed aboard ships and aircraft as well as ashore and the ability of the Allies to detect and localize U-Boat transmissions was one of the factors in defeating the wolfpacks.

Q: Also, what type of decryption methods were used by the enemies?

A: That is a story in itself. Google “Enigma” and see what comes up; by all means see the movie “The Imitation Game”. About the only redeeming quality in the movie “U-571” (don’t have a hissy-fit Sailor Steve;>) is the dedication, in the closing credits, concerning the capture of Enigma materials during the war.

Q: In the heat of the moment, where it was paramount not to be detected, would submarines have to carry out orders that were already set when departing on the mission? I.e., no turning back once things got heated?

A: Yes, but with due consideration for the command and control procedures inherent in the “Wolfpack” tactics. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the mission orders were generally very broad…“Proceed to ‘such and such’ a position/area and then “Find ‘em, chase ‘em, sink ‘em.” Of course, there were a lot of special missions as well and those orders would be more detailed.

Q: Why would a submarine be forced or required to transmit?

A: With respect to WWII German U-Boats, that goes back to the “Wolfpack” tactic and the need to communicate between the boats and the HQ ashore. USN subs in the Pacific had much fewer requirements to do so. They did not report their arrival in a patrol area or their positions...unless directed to do so by their Op Orders or by message. But, they were required to report when enroute back to port from patrol and they also needed to copy the “Fox” Broadcast for revisions to orders, contact reports and general information of use to carry out their mission orders.

If you want a lot of accurate and factual information, there are a plenty of good books on these subjects (and a few not-so-good). There are also a couple of threads right here on SubSim that concern the real world of WWII submarine warfare in the Atlantic and the Pacific. Have fun getting “submerged” in all of it.