Interesting video. What do you folks think? Mars or return to the Moon?

Oberon · 09-12-16, 02:08 PM

Red Mars is very good, there were rumours of a TV series circulating a while ago, if done right would be very good.

Mars will happen, but it'll probably be either the Chinese or a private company. I doubt it'll be NASA, there's no real public urge for it.

Betonov · 09-12-16, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Mars will happen, but it'll probably be either the Chinese or a private company. I doubt it'll be NASA, there's no real public urge for it.

Just wait for the Chinese to land on the Moon.
NASA is going to kick up a gear or two.

We need a space race. The exploration wasn't boring since the fall of the eastern bloc, but you don't push the boundries with probes.

Skybird · 09-12-16, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

but you don't push the boundries with probes.

Very many scientists would object to that.

Its right the fragility of biological carriers of life that makes robotic and machinistic "conquest" of life-hostile space - or intertstellar deep space travel - the more likely scenario. Like many also expect for this reason that the vast majority of possible superior civilizations will be technology/machinery-base forms of intelliogence - robot civilizations, in other words.

Intelligence may begin with biological life. But me too doubts that it ends there. These carbon-water-based bodies of us Earthlings simply are too weak and ill-suited to survive the dangers, demands and needs of interstellar space travelling. Not even mentioning the psychological fragility of ours.

Betonov · 09-12-16, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Very many scientists would object to that.

Its right the fragility of biological carriers of life that makes robotic and machinistic "conquest" of life-hostile space - or intertstellar deep space travel - the more likely scenario.

True true.
Probes will be the main tool for the foreseable future. They're ''cheap'', dont eat, don't breathe and can be fitted with sensor, the human senses lack.

But we as a specie are obsesed with flag planting and until a meatbag plants a flag on a planet, it's not conquered, no matter how much we already know about it from the probes.

Like JFK said, we wen't to the Moon because it was hard.

Platapus · 09-13-16, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

Like JFK said, we wen't to the Moon because it was hard.

Pretty sure we went to the moon to

1. Score cultural points against the Soviet Union
2. Score political points against Nixon
3. Garner indirect funding for our offensive missile development.
4. Establish our global and deep space satellite communication capability.

Rockstar · 09-12-16, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

Just wait for the Chinese to land on the Moon.
NASA is going to kick up a gear or two.

We need a space race. The exploration wasn't boring since the fall of the eastern bloc, but you don't push the boundries with probes.

Agreed, China might be used by NASA to fuel their own projects. But I dont see China leading any mission to Mars or anywhere. Just ask yourself when was the last time they had an original idea of their own? Seems to me all of their technolgy is for the most part 'borrowed' and or reversed engineered from others original work.

Betonov · 09-12-16, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Agreed, China might be used by NASA to fuel their own projects. But I dont see China leading any mission to Mars or elsewhere. Just ask yourself when was the last time they had an original idea of their own? Seems to me all of their technolgy is for the most part 'borrowed' and or reversed engineered from others original work.

That's the thing you see. The technology is there, someone just needs to build the damn thing, fill it with some daredevils and launch it.

The Chinese don't need an original idea to do it.

Skybird · 09-12-16, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Agreed, China might be used by NASA to fuel their own projects. But I dont see China leading any mission to Mars or anywhere. Just ask yourself when was the last time they had an original idea of their own? Seems to me all of their technolgy is for the most part 'borrowed' and or reversed engineered from others original work.

German car makers said the same about Toyota 40 years ago.

mapuc · 09-12-16, 04:55 PM

What if NASA, ESA and other countries makes some kind of joint-venture and build a "space station" on the moon ? A station from where long distance space flight starts.

Markus

Rockstar · 09-12-16, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

German car makers said the same about Toyota 40 years ago.

Toyota I can understand Japanese business culture strives to produce a great product. How many Chinese Volvo S60 Inscriptions do see on the streets?

Skybird · 09-12-16, 08:37 PM

Where do all the cheap smartphones come from that kill Apple's core business, the iPhone? Shenzen? Zuhai? Guangdong?

They even roll up the market of Asian cellphone makers like Samsung. Because they are good enough already. And cheaper.

Back oin the 70s, nobody ever believed a Japanese car maker could ever come close to the cars made by Germans. The little tin cans rolling down the ships in our harbours and then on our streets for first exploration, did not find many buyers. Bad quality, and too small and uncomfortable.

Today Toyota is probbaly the most quality-fixiated and one of the two or three biggest car makers in the world. VW. Ford. Toyota. And maybe Toyota before the other two.

I own Fenix torchlights. Made and developed in China. I swear on their quality. And their price is unbeatable, compared to torchlights of comparable quality and features from Western producers. Maglight? Surefire? Trunight? Zweibrüder? Ha! Cost twice as much, and cannot keep up. The biggest German special shop for torchlights has thrown these and many others out of their program - they do not sell anymore, people want Chinese Fenix instead! They have brought down the market, like they are about to do with cellphones as well. Notebooks. Chips.

Just examples. There are many more. China does its own aircraft. Tanks, helicopters. Just on the fly they did where the Europeans and NATO fail since over one and a half decade: within shortest time they developed and build a military transport plane that is as capable as the A400M, just carries more and bigger payloads. Different to the A400M, which is an over-ambitious crook that many years behind schedule still cannot reliably operate and fly, the Y20 flies and functions, and has no orders grounding it. LOL.

What the Japanese and Koreans could do, the Chinese learnt to do as well. Since 25 or 30 years we deliver them the needed knowhow and technology, and tell ourselves that that were a joint venture!

They now have switched from importing key technology to producing it themselves - even and especially hightech. They copied us, they caught up with us, and now they are preparing to overtake us - at production prices that still are beating ours. Like tiny Japanese cars started to do 40 years ago. All the time while we are playing ball and feed them the knowhow they still need here and there. We made them strong, and we still do so.

We must have lost our marbles.

Oberon · 09-12-16, 10:13 PM

Most secrets do not stay secret for long. Look at one of the most guarded secrets of them all, nuclear weaponry. Even the most ass-backward state of the world can put one together and detonate it.

Jimbuna · 09-13-16, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

We must have lost our marbles.

Buy some from China, they're a lot cheaper

09-12-16, 08:37 PM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,664 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Where do all the cheap smartphones come from that kill Apple's core business, the iPhone? Shenzen? Zuhai? Guangdong? They even roll up the market of Asian cellphone makers like Samsung. Because they are good enough already. And cheaper. Back oin the 70s, nobody ever believed a Japanese car maker could ever come close to the cars made by Germans. The little tin cans rolling down the ships in our harbours and then on our streets for first exploration, did not find many buyers. Bad quality, and too small and uncomfortable. Today Toyota is probbaly the most quality-fixiated and one of the two or three biggest car makers in the world. VW. Ford. Toyota. And maybe Toyota before the other two. I own Fenix torchlights. Made and developed in China. I swear on their quality. And their price is unbeatable, compared to torchlights of comparable quality and features from Western producers. Maglight? Surefire? Trunight? Zweibrüder? Ha! Cost twice as much, and cannot keep up. The biggest German special shop for torchlights has thrown these and many others out of their program - they do not sell anymore, people want Chinese Fenix instead! They have brought down the market, like they are about to do with cellphones as well. Notebooks. Chips. Just examples. There are many more. China does its own aircraft. Tanks, helicopters. Just on the fly they did where the Europeans and NATO fail since over one and a half decade: within shortest time they developed and build a military transport plane that is as capable as the A400M, just carries more and bigger payloads. Different to the A400M, which is an over-ambitious crook that *many* years behind schedule still cannot reliably operate and fly, the Y20 flies and functions, and has no orders grounding it. LOL. What the Japanese and Koreans could do, the Chinese learnt to do as well. Since 25 or 30 years we deliver them the needed knowhow and technology, and tell ourselves that that were a joint venture! They now have switched from importing key technology to producing it themselves - even and especially hightech. They copied us, they caught up with us, and now they are preparing to overtake us - at production prices that still are beating ours. Like tiny Japanese cars started to do 40 years ago. All the time while we are playing ball and feed them the knowhow they still need here and there. We made them strong, and we still do so. We must have lost our marbles. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-12-16, 02:08 PM	#1
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Red Mars is very good, there were rumours of a TV series circulating a while ago, if done right would be very good. Mars will happen, but it'll probably be either the Chinese or a private company. I doubt it'll be NASA, there's no real public urge for it.

09-12-16, 04:55 PM	#9
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,541 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	What if NASA, ESA and other countries makes some kind of joint-venture and build a "space station" on the moon ? A station from where long distance space flight starts. Markus

09-12-16, 10:13 PM	#12
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Most secrets do not stay secret for long. Look at one of the most guarded secrets of them all, nuclear weaponry. Even the most ass-backward state of the world can put one together and detonate it.