Exoplanets

Platapus · 08-26-16, 06:12 PM

I guess it would depend on the definition of intelligence.

I wonder if "acts/acted like us" is a good measurand?

Quote:

Of course if they are still in the stone age their intelligent may not be that high.

Supposed they evolved to such a high level of intelligence that they decided that the "stone age" (an ill defined earth centrist term) is the optimum technological state to maintain harmony with nature, where maintaining a balance with nature is the goal?

mapuc · 08-26-16, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I guess it would depend on the definition of intelligence.

I wonder if "acts/acted like us" is a good measurand?

Supposed they evolved to such a high level of intelligence that they decided that the "stone age" (an ill defined earth centrist term) is the optimum technological state to maintain harmony with nature, where maintaining a balance with nature is the goal?

When I wrote the word "Intelligent" I know this word would be more discussed than the topic itself.

I tried to find another word, but I couldn't

It's another planet=another type of time periode
Maybe this or those planet(s) didn't have any stone age or other time period.
Or is this an universal thing, which every habitat planets has to go through ?

Markus

Platapus · 08-26-16, 06:35 PM

It is difficult to conceptualize other planets without introducing our own bias. After all, this planet is all we know.

But another planet, may not have much in common with anything on earth. Life may be in a completely alien (pun intended) form that we may not even be easily able to identify or even detect.

The very concept of intelligence on another planet may have little in common to what we consider intelligence. After all, we have a hard time defining intelligence here on this rock.

or

They may look and act just like us.

We may never know.

Perhaps it was intended that life evolves on planets too far apart to allow any cross "contamination" between them?

Sort of a naturally enforced Prime Directive.

Sailor Steve · 08-26-16, 06:39 PM

Since there is no way to know the answer except by going there, or them coming to us, or possibly receiving an intelligible radio message, I got out of the habit of speculating long ago. We can talk about it and guess at the answers forever and still be no closer to knowing anything. I've come to consider questions like this to be a waste of time.

Von Due · 08-26-16, 06:57 PM

As for what would life on other planets be like, I'm with Sailor Steve in that there is no way to tell what those lifeforms would be like. There is however one book, written in the late 70's, that attempts to find the questions one should ask, or can ask. Being that old, lots of the data in it is outdated, corrected or wrong but the main theme, which questions should one ask, is still valid.
The book is "Liv Bland Miljarder Stjärnor, Civilisationer i Vintergatan och Därbortom?" ("Life Among Billions of Stars, Civilizations in the Milky Way and Beyond?") by the Finnish astronomer/physicist Nils Mustelin. Like I said, some of what's in there is not up to date but it's still a good read if one is interested in the possibility of life elsewhere.

fireftr18 · 08-26-16, 08:58 PM

As others have said, there is no real way of telling how life on another planet has evolved. I have two thoughts on the matter.
No real research involved on this one. Combining different and many shows and different and many texts over the years, it seems that the chance of another planet capable of supporting life as we know it is so astronomical, that we can consider it as impossible.
Now, let's consider that there is another planet capable of supporting life as we know it, and has evolved to intelligence. We still don't know what the plants and lower animals will look like. Based on Biblical teachings, the intelligent life would be very similar to us. "Made in the image and likeness of God."

Eichhörnchen · 08-27-16, 02:32 AM

There's been much talk lately, as we build machines with ever more autonomy, of of 'non-organic' life developing here on our own planet to eventually replace humankind. It may already have happened out there...

Von Due · 08-27-16, 03:44 AM

Based on the book I mentioned, some questions one should ask:
How do planets and stars form anyway?
What's up with the different types of stars and why would it matter?
How would double/triple etc star systems affect any planetary system around those stars?
Long story short, if the theories are right or close to being right then we can expect, statistically, billions of planets that can support carbon based life, whether or not life is present on those planets. Statistically, of course.

What is life anyway?
How did life begin on Earth?
What is a species anyway?
How does evolution work? What factors in and what doesn't? How important is it to evolution that we reproduce the way we do? How likely is it that evolution sees a species through the needle eyes and bring sexual reproduction? What other needle eyes are there and how likely is evolution to get us through all of those?
Again, long story short: The probability of life to start at all on a planet suitable for life appears to be high with numbers from above 50% to 100%. From what we can tell, evolution is inevitable when we talk about carbon based life like here on Earth so if life begins then there will be an evolution. That being said, on another planet, evolution would certainly diverge over millions and billions of years from the one here on Earth even if the starting conditions were in every way identical so no humans, no lizards or dinosaurs or jellyfish there.

What is intelligence?
How does the biological evolution take part in the developement of intelligence? How much did it matter that we have sensory organs and how much did it matter that our eyes happen to be sensitive to a narrow band on the E.M. spectrum?
At what point can one say there is a culture and a cultural evolution?
Statistics and what we think we know (in 1978-1980 that is) suggests that intelligence is highly likely to appear as it offers benefits for the species that helps the species survive and get offspring. Would any intelligent alien score well on any earthly IQ test? Not neccessarily.

Time. Just because it may be highly likely that life appears on a planet suitable for life, just because it may be likely that evolution brings on intelligent species, does not in any way mean the universe is filled to the brim with life and civilizations. Not all stars formed at the same time, not every planet formed at the same time, there is no reason to think life somehow started on all these planets at the same time. Then there is the question of how long do stars live, how long do civilizations live? Time is the real killer after all the talk about statistics and likelyhood.

Even if we max out all the probabilities for life and civilizations, thanks to time, we still shouldn't be surprised if we were alone at the moment, nor should we be surprised if there was a civilization 100 light years away.

08-26-16, 06:35 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,381 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	It is difficult to conceptualize other planets without introducing our own bias. After all, this planet is all we know. But another planet, may not have much in common with anything on earth. Life may be in a completely alien (pun intended) form that we may not even be easily able to identify or even detect. The very concept of intelligence on another planet may have little in common to what we consider intelligence. After all, we have a hard time defining intelligence here on this rock. or They may look and act just like us. We may never know. Perhaps it was intended that life evolves on planets too far apart to allow any cross "contamination" between them? Sort of a naturally enforced Prime Directive. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-26-16, 06:39 PM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Since there is no way to know the answer except by going there, or them coming to us, or possibly receiving an intelligible radio message, I got out of the habit of speculating long ago. We can talk about it and guess at the answers forever and still be no closer to knowing anything. I've come to consider questions like this to be a waste of time. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-26-16, 08:58 PM	#6
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,528 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	As others have said, there is no real way of telling how life on another planet has evolved. I have two thoughts on the matter. No real research involved on this one. Combining different and many shows and different and many texts over the years, it seems that the chance of another planet capable of supporting life as we know it is so astronomical, that we can consider it as impossible. Now, let's consider that there is another planet capable of supporting life as we know it, and has evolved to intelligence. We still don't know what the plants and lower animals will look like. Based on Biblical teachings, the intelligent life would be very similar to us. "Made in the image and likeness of God." __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

08-27-16, 02:32 AM	#7
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 17,417 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	There's been much talk lately, as we build machines with ever more autonomy, of of 'non-organic' life developing here on our own planet to eventually replace humankind. It may already have happened out there... __________________

08-26-16, 06:57 PM	#5
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	As for what would life on other planets be like, I'm with Sailor Steve in that there is no way to tell what those lifeforms would be like. There is however one book, written in the late 70's, that attempts to find the questions one should ask, or can ask. Being that old, lots of the data in it is outdated, corrected or wrong but the main theme, which questions should one ask, is still valid. The book is "Liv Bland Miljarder Stjärnor, Civilisationer i Vintergatan och Därbortom?" ("Life Among Billions of Stars, Civilizations in the Milky Way and Beyond?") by the Finnish astronomer/physicist Nils Mustelin. Like I said, some of what's in there is not up to date but it's still a good read if one is interested in the possibility of life elsewhere.

08-27-16, 03:44 AM	#8
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Based on the book I mentioned, some questions one should ask: How do planets and stars form anyway? What's up with the different types of stars and why would it matter? How would double/triple etc star systems affect any planetary system around those stars? Long story short, if the theories are right or close to being right then we can expect, statistically, billions of planets that can support carbon based life, whether or not life is present on those planets. Statistically, of course. What is life anyway? How did life begin on Earth? What is a species anyway? How does evolution work? What factors in and what doesn't? How important is it to evolution that we reproduce the way we do? How likely is it that evolution sees a species through the needle eyes and bring sexual reproduction? What other needle eyes are there and how likely is evolution to get us through all of those? Again, long story short: The probability of life to start at all on a planet suitable for life appears to be high with numbers from above 50% to 100%. From what we can tell, evolution is inevitable when we talk about carbon based life like here on Earth so if life begins then there will be an evolution. That being said, on another planet, evolution would certainly diverge over millions and billions of years from the one here on Earth even if the starting conditions were in every way identical so no humans, no lizards or dinosaurs or jellyfish there. What is intelligence? How does the biological evolution take part in the developement of intelligence? How much did it matter that we have sensory organs and how much did it matter that our eyes happen to be sensitive to a narrow band on the E.M. spectrum? At what point can one say there is a culture and a cultural evolution? Statistics and what we think we know (in 1978-1980 that is) suggests that intelligence is highly likely to appear as it offers benefits for the species that helps the species survive and get offspring. Would any intelligent alien score well on any earthly IQ test? Not neccessarily. Time. Just because it may be highly likely that life appears on a planet suitable for life, just because it may be likely that evolution brings on intelligent species, does not in any way mean the universe is filled to the brim with life and civilizations. Not all stars formed at the same time, not every planet formed at the same time, there is no reason to think life somehow started on all these planets at the same time. Then there is the question of how long do stars live, how long do civilizations live? Time is the real killer after all the talk about statistics and likelyhood. Even if we max out all the probabilities for life and civilizations, thanks to time, we still shouldn't be surprised if we were alone at the moment, nor should we be surprised if there was a civilization 100 light years away.