Is war between cops and citizens brewing?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

social justice warrior
OK. That is one I've never heard before.

And us moderate liberals hate them even more than the conservatives.
They're completely retarded and make us all look bad.

Originally Posted by Betonov

And us moderate liberals hate them even more than the conservatives.
They're completely retarded and make us all look bad.

They are our Palin, basically ...with a topping of cancer and herpes.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

What the heck is SJW?

Single Jewish Woman. It is used in single's ads.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Reaching for your gun is the best safety you can get ......

Well safest for the officer. Sure. Shoot first and forget the questions because there is no/limited accountability is always the best and most safest action.... for the officer. Preemptive strike and all.

For the innocent civilian? An officer reaching for his or her gun is not the best safety.

But there is more to the equation than just the officer. Contrary to the belief of some, the world does not revolve around what is safe/easiest/best for the officer. There are also the citizens in the equation... supposedly the group that is being protected.

I would like for our smart people to develop new technology that will be safe for both the officer and the citizen.

A live defendant is better than a dead suspect.

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well safest for the officer. Sure. Shoot first and forget the questions because there is no/limited accountability is always the best and most safest action.... for the officer. Preemptive strike and all.

As if a large number of cops are mindless machines who just don't care or what!

Originally Posted by Platapus

For the innocent civilian?

Who said anything about innocent?
How can the cop know - before hand - if the person he approaches means trouble?
Who said the cop has to reach for his gun as long as a person is compliant?

Ah!

As I said - be cooperative, don't pull any stunts -> everybody gets home safe. No rocket science.

(If anyone wants to mention the one guy who got shot in his car for no reason, congratulations, you are the problem in this debate.)

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

As I said - be cooperative, don't pull any stunts -> everybody gets home safe. No rocket science.

Exactly. It's pretty simple.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Single Jewish Woman. It is used in single's ads.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

I'd, go so far and say they are next to useless, since they are very unreliable. They aren't the wonder-tool so many SJW's claim. And personally, I can understand every single cop reaching for his 9mm instead of a "maybe you will get home tonight, maybe not" toy. Reaching for your gun is the best safety you can get and I think it is sick of spoiled SJW idiots to even DEMAND cops use them in potentially life threatening situations.

Your kind of grossly oversimplifying things. Tasers are generally successful in most cases, particularly when drugs are not involved. But to use a taser properly you need to be well trained on the device, as despite the manufacturers advertising, they are not simply point and shoot. Tasers can be defeated by thick or dense materials the person is wearing, they are a very short range device, and the needles can go off course (you need both to penetrate the skin for the device to work). This is one of the reasons why a typical police taser has at least 2 shots. It also means you need to be very mindful of where you aim, or if the taser is even likely to work in the situation.

Police also have other LTL devices that can be used, such as netguns (they are good for disabling people on a meth rampage), pepperballs (these are not used a whole lot due to the list of deaths associated with them), or K9 dogs.

The matter is simple: DON'T resist and DON'T threaten - no need to worry*.

As I pointed out in my last post that can be hard to do, and keep in mind there are 2 or more people involved in this equation, and both of them can have completely different interpretations of the situation. I can also think of several recent cases, where the person was shot while complying, particularly black men.

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

As if a large number of cops are mindless machines who just don't care or what!

While I would certainly agree, the police have always had a problem with certain types finding their way into the police system, including blatant racists, people that desire the power and want to use it, sociopaths, and gun nuts who want to get to use guns for real.

Veterans with PTSD also have a tendency of joining police forces after their deployment and service have ended (Seriously, you would not believe the number of veterans I've worked with who had also been police or corrections officers after they came back), which can create a very dangerous situation if they have a flashback while responding, for the officer themselves, and/or the person(s) they are dealing with. In the case of combat veterans, they may not even have recovered from their deployment and may still feel like they are still in combat.

I'm not calling any of these people mindless machines (people are not mindless machines), but for the most part the police really could do with some tightening up of their recruitment.

Who said anything about innocent?
How can the cop know - before hand - if the person he approaches means trouble?
Who said the cop has to reach for his gun as long as a person is compliant?

Ah!

As I said - be cooperative, don't pull any stunts -> everybody gets home safe. No rocket science.

This is a bit of an oversimplification, as what happens if the officer is not following proper procedure, or what if the person is just having a bad day? Officers are also not perfect and may incorrectly assess the situation. The two most crucial things to ensure public safety is proper and extensive training, and a strong amount of police involvement in the community. The other important things is anti-racism training (something even black officers need), and a great deal of shoot no shoot drills to try to override the latent tendency to view black men as automatically threatening.

Also fyi in the USA most police officers, after a traffic stop, will tend to approach cars containing black people with guns already drawn. They may think this black person is the one an APB was put out on, or they may just assume criminality. This also happens when on foot too.

If anyone wants to mention the one guy who got shot in his car for no reason, congratulations, you are the problem in this debate.

Why shouldn't we mention him? From all the information presently available, the officer was not following proper procedure, and that the use of lethal force was not warranted at that moment. By the sounds of things the guy was in full compliance, including informing the officer that he did have a concealed carry permit, and that he was presently armed. The officer failed to handle the situation at that point

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Why shouldn't we mention him?

*sigh*
Because he is a completely isolated case, far, far, faaaaaaaaar away from what we could call the norm - or not?
So in a general debate, how do isolated incidents matter, like at all?
They don't - unless a person starts reaching for anything to support a position.

I stick with what I said before, don't pull any stunts, don't play 'sovereign citizen' and everybody gets home 99.9% of the case.
If a cop simply murders someone, the problem is just that, murder.
Not related to the topic at all.

Also, I disagree on 'oversimplifying' things, it is rather you who doesn't think these scenarios through. A friggin net gun!?

Yeah, sure Mr. Knife-wielding-crazy-person who suddenly resists during a traffic stop, lemme get my net gun, taser, rubber ball shotgun and pepper spray, trying to enforce compliance with that while risking that it won't work and I might die, I'm sure you'll just wait a moment with your intentions of ACTUALLY KILLING ME.

Personally, I will never expect any cop to put his life on the line just because some freak loses it. I have been a paramedic, I have seen nutcases in action, so no thank you.

Do you know what?
If I ever be in 'Murica again and just jump out of my car in a traffic stop, approach an officer and not listening to what he says - he may feel free to put one between my eyes.

Some people are just begging for it, considering how they behave.
Might be a form of natural selection, who knows. Fine with me anyways.
I can only agree on one thing: Apparently, too many spoiled apples in blue, and training standards (if they exist) might be in dire need of being changed. However, that won't change the problem of all the non-blue loonies in the streets.

[danasan]

Breaking News:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us...ing/index.html

Baton Rouge Police Shooting, Three Officers might be Killed

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by danasan

Breaking News:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us...ing/index.html

Baton Rouge Police Shooting, Three Officers might be Killed

Swell. I guess going into Mobile Infantry mode wasn't the answer to Baton Rogue's problems.

[Captain Jeff]

America in 1776. "I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."

America in 2016. "If the cops are harassing you, it must be your fault." "You should just do everything a cop tells you to do the instant he tells you to do it." "If the cops shoot someone then that person must have deserved it."

It's interesting to see how a police state can make people run in fear. Maybe people assume they can be safe from the police if they join in on the police attack.

It's also interesting to see some people from other countries talk like the reason we have so many out of control cops and so many prisons is because the people of this country are a bad society that needs to be clamped down and controlled. It's all our fault. You'd think some of these countries would look at their own history and realize a police state is never justified.

I have faith in the youth of this country. I believe they'll right the ship, even if they have to create a new country to do it. They will restore freedom and end the police state. And when they're done, they will live in a long period of isolationism. Did someone invade your country and now they're robbing you and throwing you in jails? Good luck with that. After all, where were you when it was happening to me?

[Mittelwaechter]

Your youth is distracted, conservative and ignorant. They won't fix anything.

The rest of the world is at the other end of your gun, asking you to put it down.

But you insist to bring those liberties and privileges you want to grant us.
You are many and you are armed to the teeth - with nukes, economy and control over our money.

Your spies and secret police know everything about us - and our politicians.
Your amount of weapons match the rest of the world - and you make pay us for them.

We fail to unite against you, because you work constantly and efficiently on divide et impera. But you wonder, why “the world” doesn't like the US...



If you are terribly strong you must be terribly nice. (Pippilotta Longstocking)

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

If you are terribly strong you must be terribly nice. (Pippilotta Longstocking)

That's got to be the first time someone has quoted Pippi Longstocking on Subsim.

[Mittelwaechter]

She's my childhood hero.