Bright flash of light as life begins.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Science is based on evidence. There is no evidence for multi-dimensional universes, multiple big bangs followed by big crunches, or anything at all beyond 13 and a fraction billion years ago.

Whatever is said about those things is not science at all. It is baseless speculation. Many have some kind of a love affair with mathematics, thinking that if something is mathematically consistent, it must be true. It is true that baseless speculation can set you on a course of investigation to find the true nature of things. But it is not true that reality must yield to the power of baseless speculation.

Well, that is false. Mathematics is a descriptive language, like English or German. All three languages have the ability to describe internally consistent falsehood as well as truthfulness. Imagine the foolishness of saying "It is said in English (or German) so it MUST be true." Nobody would buy that bag of horse squeezings. But they write a blank check to mathematical theory. It is utter foolishness.

I dont understand your argument because I dont believe anyone here said 'theory' is truth or law, it is just a theory. I just said I was open to all possibilities and I do agree that without an imagination we would still be beliving we are the center of the universe and it all revolved around us.

Keep in mind too 13 billion years isnt an absolute. Thanks to the brains and imagination of man his math and theory time is seen as something relative to ones frame of reference. .

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I dont understand your argument because I dont believe anyone here said 'theory' is truth or law, it is just a theory. I just said I was open to all possibilities and I do agree that without an imagination we would still be beliving the sun revolved around the earth.

A scientific theory is confined to things for which evidence exists. No evidence exists for multi-dimensional universes, cyclical big bang/big crunch cycles, parallel universes with different basic constants and properties, alternate time streams, alien life, alien intelligence, or on-time mail delivery.

Therefore, nothing said about any of them merits the distinction of being called a theory. Theories are explanations of a collection of evidence, not speculation based on imaginative fantasies. Elevating imaginative fantasies to the status of theory would be the end of science.

Just to give you one example of why these fantasies don't deserve to be called theories, a theory, in order to be called such, must be falsifiable. If you posit the theory that the force of gravity between two objects is related to the sum of the masses and the distance of their centers of mass, then merely showing one example where that is not true is enough to falsify that theory. The theory was built on evidence and it will die by evidence.

But there is no evidence of the list above, multi-dimensional universes, cyclical big bang/big crunch cycles, parallel universes with different basic constants and properties, alternate time streams, alien life, alien intelligence, or on-time mail delivery. Therefore they are not falsifiable. Therefore they are not theories. Well, maybe on-time mail delivery can be falsified.

[Platapus]

Scientists don't have a problem claiming that "we just don't know... yet".

Religious leaders have more of a problem which may explain the fall back position of "the [deity of choice] works in mysterious ways, but we should just trust that it will work out."

If the answer is "god's will"; where is the motivation to further attempt to find an answer?

The essence of science is accepting not knowing but at the same time being motivated to find the solution... even it it takes thousands of years.

Science continues to make discoveries/generate explanations because we don't know and it bugs us that we don't know.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Platapus

If the answer is "god's will"; where is the motivation to further attempt to find an answer?

Well, 72 virgins seems a good motivation lately these days!

[vienna]

Science also has the distinction of being the only discipline when, even if it is apparent the answer is "known", every effort is made to disprove the "knowledge"; it is in this way science strives for the most extreme accuracy possible, something, again, not seen in other disciplines. The concept of contradiction is anathema to science and is attacked at every instance; something, again, not seen in other disciplines. It is the blind acceptance of "knowledge" based on a bed of contradictions that has caused so much of the miseries in world history -- I cannot recall there ever being a war fought over a difference in scientific views...


<O>

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

A scientific theory is confined to things for which evidence exists. No evidence exists for multi-dimensional universes, cyclical big bang/big crunch cycles, parallel universes with different basic constants and properties, alternate time streams, alien life, alien intelligence, or on-time mail delivery.

Therefore, nothing said about any of them merits the distinction of being called a theory. Theories are explanations of a collection of evidence, not speculation based on imaginative fantasies. Elevating imaginative fantasies to the status of theory would be the end of science.

Just to give you one example of why these fantasies don't deserve to be called theories, a theory, in order to be called such, must be falsifiable. If you posit the theory that the force of gravity between two objects is related to the sum of the masses and the distance of their centers of mass, then merely showing one example where that is not true is enough to falsify that theory. The theory was built on evidence and it will die by evidence.

But there is no evidence of the list above, multi-dimensional universes, cyclical big bang/big crunch cycles, parallel universes with different basic constants and properties, alternate time streams, alien life, alien intelligence, or on-time mail delivery. Therefore they are not falsifiable. Therefore they are not theories. Well, maybe on-time mail delivery can be falsified.

I understand what you're saying. Look, I may not agree with Multi Universe Theory and I don't. But I do from time to time read the oppositions paper. When say I Ive read about it and that I have but a feeble underatanding of it. Rest assured I dont need to be chastised over the deffenition of what a theory is, for the simple reason I am not the one who said it was a theory, the theoretical physicists and centers of education who came up with this idea did. This why I dont understand your argument with me. If you want to call it speculation or foolishness go ahead call it what you want. The fact remains people have suggested it and did the math. Right or wrong wrong what I truely admire is the brains that can come up with things like this.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thanks to the brains and imagination of man his math and theory time is seen as something relative to ones frame of reference. .

Let's leave relative out of it BBY!

A happy man is too satisfied with the present to dwell too much on the future.

I am convinced that when my homo-sapient ride on a spinning 1000 mph mudball; circumnavigating a sun; in a spinning galaxy; in an expanding universe is blessedly over...all will B manifestly made clear on a 'need 2 know' basis...

[vienna]

Bright flash of light? Aw, that's just the little swimmer having an after-ciggie...



<O>

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by vienna

Bright flash of light? Aw, that's just the little swimmer having an after-ciggie...



<O>

We are in god's image: = really a celestial 'brainfart'! @ AndyJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Man_factor

And I am very much alive without any of this.

I completely agree with your lack of a 'coping bicameral mechanism'

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Let's leave relative out of it BBY! [/COLOR]I am convinced that when my homo-sapient ride on a spinning 1000 mph mudball; circumnavigating a sun; in a spinning galaxy; in an expanding universe is blessedly over...all will B manifestly made clear on a 'need 2 know' basis...

LOL careful you are speculating and that might get burned at the stake around here.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

LOL careful you are speculating and that might get burned at the stake around here.

Speculation is a great thing. It's where all the best fantasy and science fiction comes from. Speculation isn't the problem - calling speculation fact is the problem.

Oh, and I'm curious about what seems to be going undiscussed. What's the story on the "flash of light" that started this thread? Have there been other observances?