Europe's migrant problem

[August]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Gladstone, alternet, news paper, media oulets, phobias are not going to drive young muslims to radical imans.

Whats going to drive them to your socalled radical islam are those who open the door to an uncontrolled flood of refugees. Enticing them with the promise of jobs, homes and handouts. However when these young impressionable refugees arrive and find out there are no jobs and only tent cities and slums to live in. Then problems will arise.

The question is who is doing the enticing? I doubt agents of the German government are circulating through ME refugee camps handing out invitations,... are they?

[Rockstar]

You could say that. A great many suffering from guilt trips are waving them in left and right.

Its wonderful here, look at our way of life, be a part of it, everyone is invited they say.

Yippee say the migrants lets all go to this place in the middle of europe where we'll be loved and cared for by the friendliest people we have ever known who feel so guilty for what their fathers did and want to share with us their home

They are greeted and showered with flowers by all these people so happy with themselves for being so friendly and talkng about how friendly they are and pointing out to the migrants how evil industries of hate are hating because they are questioning motives of all the friendly people. When the celebration is over and they are finished patting each other on the back for inviting this great mass of people, its time to go home.

Well the friendliest bunch of people who love to talk about how they love the world and how fun it would be if everyone could sit around the campfire and sing kumbyaa all sneak out the back door hoping not to be seen and followed to their beautiful homes on top of green hills far away from the troubles sometimes found in the inner city or across the tracks. Off they go finally hopping into their big cushy beds so they can dream dreams about how great the world would be if only everyone else was as friendly as them.

And the migrants? Well, the migrants they get to go to their slummy little tent city the worlds most friendliest people ever in the whole wide world designed for them and wait for someone else to come along who might actually have a clue what to do next. Having been duped by the worlds most friendliest people into beliving life was actually going to be better. They stand around scratching their heads wondering where did the worlds friendliest people in the whole wide world go? Asking amongst themselves will we see them again? Who will help us? Then out of the blue a lone voice says I know lets all go down and see the local iman. He'll help us, he'll tell us what we should do where to find purpose and jobs.

Of course when someone eventually straps a vest on and blows up a community. There will be the worlds most friendliest people once again standing tall standing proud accusing anyone who questioned their motives and friendliness as the hateful industry of hate and the real reason for this crime because they were not friendly enough.

OK thats enough beer Im going to bed now.

fixed

[Jimbuna]

The bigger medium to large term worry has to be how those who's asylum applications fail are to be repatriated.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The bigger medium to large term worry has to be how those who's asylum applications fail are to be repatriated.

Well it would be easier if the authorities had a clue where the heck they disappeared too.

[mapuc]

Be free to correct my if I'm wrong or have been thinking in a wrong way

Refugee versus Immigrants

Refugee is a person, who before he, she or they became a refugee, had absolutely no thoughts of leaving the ground/country he, she is living in/on

Due to some unexpected incident-War, disaster etc he, she or they have to leave the place- They do not travel longer away than to the nearest Country or a second country. He, she or they stay there in hope of coming back to their home again.

Immigrants- Is a person who mostly comes from areas where there's no war, disaster etc-They Seek either a better economical life and or a safe haven- This safe haven, is more those who from the beginning was a refugee but have started to take the long road to some Western country.

Markus

[mapuc]

It is from all the story I have heard throughout the migrant problem we have

Many stay in these refugee camp

Those who take the long road to a western country
Only 1 out of 10 or was it 20 is a real refugee rest is an economical immigrant

And some stories from people living in these camps

"I hope that I can return to my town/country/home soon"

And from immigrant camp in Greece- "I wanna go to Germany because I come from Syria I must go to Germany"

This is why I came up with this different between a refugee and immigrant.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You get a fair few in the holding camps, most of them in Kent, the conditions there are...not brilliant. A lot of them have no nationality any more, their home country revokes their passport and sends them straight back on the next plane.

That makes them a stateless person and is unlawful but unfortunately the country trying to send them back to the country who refuses to recognise them is the party breaking the law

[tomfon]

mapuc's post was an inspiration for doing a bit of research.

So, according to the 1951 Refugee Convention of the UN someone is considered to be a refugee if they are "... forced to flee because of a threat of persecution and because they lack the protection of their own country." An immigrant, on the other hand may leave for reasons not related to persecution (of any form, i guess).

What's more, it seems that refugees are entitled to some very fundamental & elementary rights:

•The right not to be expelled, except under certain, strictly defined conditions (Article 32).
• The right not to be punished for illegal entry into the territory of a contracting State (Article 31).
• The right to work (Articles 17 to 19).
• The right to housing (Article 21).
• The right to education (Article 22).
• The right to public relief and assistance (Article 23).
• The right to freedom of religion (Article 4).
• The right to access the courts (Article 16).
• The right to freedom of movement within the territory (Article 26) and
• The right to be issued identity and travel documents (Articles 27 and 28).

So says the law...

References: 1951 Refugee Convention -FAQ - Convention & Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees.

[Skybird]

^Some of those rights are violations of natural rights of hosting nations and people already living there.

I stick to it: NOBODY can have the right to move just anywhere and demand to be fully accepted and allowed to freely move inside that place if it already is inhibited and is claimed possession.

From a libertarian POV, only the question of whether socalled states/nations can have any right to claim a country/place/land "theirs", is valid for discussion. This is debatable since states cannot claim possession of anything that not before at any point of history they have not stolen and robbed from free people.

Nobody shall or must be demanded to live for the sake of somebody else. Even the duties of parents towards their own children sooner or later come to an end, when the chiuldren start to lie an adult life of their own. Demanding that people should live for the needs of others, is nothing else but the declaration of a state of slavery again. You can only voluntarily decide to do so for yourself. It compares to the immorality of trying to blackmail somebody for solidarity. Enforced solidarity, enforced help, is not solidarity, is not help. Its force.

At just another EU summit Turkey demand free visas for its people into the EU. And the Germans signal willingness to allow Greece another bailout. The delusive semblance must be kept at all cost, even if the costs are too high. Same song as always. Its so tiring.

[mapuc]

Reading Skybird post

I remember some article where some of our weak people who have been waiting for an apartment or so, suddenly have been moved back in the queue because some refugee or claiming to be a refugee has got this apartment or similar(mostly a house bought by the municipality)

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by tomfon

• The right to work (Articles 17 to 19).
• The right to housing (Article 21).
• The right to education (Article 22).
• The right to public relief and assistance (Article 23).
• The right to freedom of religion (Article 4).
• The right to access the courts (Article 16).
• The right to freedom of movement within the territory (Article 26) and
• The right to be issued identity and travel documents (Articles 27 and 28).

That sure sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Indeed, and all you need to do to get it is live in a warzone.

Or claim you did.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

To be honest, you could probably claim it from living in the US during election season.

Or a US high school at any season

[August]

Exaggerate much?

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Or a US high school at any season

Any retail store on Black Friday.