Gun Control thread (merged many)

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

A case in court to hold the manufacturer accountable in the Sandy Hook massacre.



And it is completely legal. I can see holding a manufactuer accountable if they broke the law or took reckless action....but this is like saying a drunk driver who killed someone--quick, what make car was he driving, let's sue them.

At some point this could end up in the SC....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/22/health...uit/index.html

I try not to even think of Sandy Hook considering how absolutely horrible and unimaginable things were. No matter what happened to the shooter, the parents were essentially given a life sentence of remembering their lost child that was senselessly taken away. We all feel terrible of what happened.

Nothing is going to bring those lost children back. Legal actions such as this are essentially to assign blame. I'm sure the gun manufacturer had no idea this was going to take place. As long as the gun manufacturer legally manufactured and sold the weapons through legally authorized stores and outlets, they are blameless.

Everyone including Oberon and August made good points as well. It could be these lawyers want to make a name for themselves in that they slayed the " dragon " There has to be a common sense way to keep weapons out of the hands of those who shouldn't possess them. This isn't the way. I hope the case is dismissed.

As you said Neal, vehicles of every kind kill a greater number of people every year in auto crashes. Should they be banned as well ?

[U505995]

I'm a pro-gun guy but I found this cartoon that made me laugh.

No Obama was never going to take er guns, but all they people were going crazy over it.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I try not to even think of Sandy Hook considering how absolutely horrible and unimaginable things were. No matter what happened to the shooter, the parents were essentially given a life sentence of remembering their lost child that was senselessly taken away. We all feel terrible of what happened....
As you said Neal, vehicles of every kind kill a greater number of people every year in auto crashes. Should they be banned as well ?

I would opine that more children are "taken away" because of alcohol related events than by guns. But I don't see anyone pushing for more alcohol.

Some claim that the "only purpose" of a gun is to kill. Ok, accepting that argument I would counter that the "only purpose" of alcohol is to impair judgement and get people drunk.

Which is the greater threat to society?

Well the answer is what ever you don't personally enjoy doing.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I would opine that more children are "taken away" because of alcohol related events than by guns. But I don't see anyone pushing for more alcohol.

Some claim that the "only purpose" of a gun is to kill. Ok, accepting that argument I would counter that the "only purpose" of alcohol is to impair judgement and get people drunk.

Which is the greater threat to society?

Well the answer is what ever you don't personally enjoy doing.

Well said.

[Platapus]

The easiest right to infringe is a right you don't personally use.

As an atheist, I would not mind if the First Amendment right to freedom of religion were to be repealed. Might solve some problems.

However, as an American, I will fight to maintain the citizen's right to freedom of religion as I recognize that my personal feelings/opinions/beliefs should not dictate what others are allowed to do. I also recognize that despite some extremists, religion is positive influence on our society.

I wish the anti-gun people would have the same thought process.

In any case if safety and "think of the children" is truly the motivation, guns are low on the list of stuff that needs fixin' in this country.

So, sure, put the risks to our citizens in order of most occurrences and start working on fixing that list. When we fix the other stuff, then perhaps we can start talking about guns.

But when guns are moved to the top of the list, logic is simply not the primary motivator. Emotions and politics are.

A right should not be infringed based on emotions or politics.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I would opine that more children are "taken away" because of alcohol related events than by guns. But I don't see anyone pushing for more alcohol.

Some claim that the "only purpose" of a gun is to kill. Ok, accepting that argument I would counter that the "only purpose" of alcohol is to impair judgement and get people drunk.

Which is the greater threat to society?

Well the answer is what ever you don't personally enjoy doing.

I'm not sure if I would agree alcohol takes more kids lives but without statistical numbers.... Maybe from drunk drivers I'm thinking. However, your point is well made that there are more important things to fix and as we both said, you can't ban cars and alcohol although they did try to ban alcohol once.

As usual, you present a thought provoking post and thread.

Originally Posted by Platapus

I would opine that more children are "taken away" because of alcohol related events than by guns. But I don't see anyone pushing for more alcohol.

Some claim that the "only purpose" of a gun is to kill. Ok, accepting that argument I would counter that the "only purpose" of alcohol is to impair judgement and get people drunk.

Which is the greater threat to society?

Well the answer is what ever you don't personally enjoy doing.

I wonder, why do people always bring a completely different problem into the debate?
This is the gun control thread. Not the alcohol abuse thread.
While I get your point, I don't think it is sensible to go along with it.

Debate the topic, don't create straw-men like that, or "cars" (the usual excuse).
(And no, I am still not anti-gun.)

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

I wonder, why do people always bring a completely different problem into the debate?
This is the gun control thread. Not the alcohol abuse thread.
While I get your point, I don't think it is sensible to go along with it.

Debate the topic, don't create straw-men like that, or "cars" (the usual excuse).
(And no, I am still not anti-gun.)

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..

It comes down to accountability. There will always be those who blame people , companies and organizations for something they had nothing to do with and then try to extract money and payments from them. That's tantamount to legalized extortion.

Great thread. Lots of good insightful posts.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..

It comes down to accountability. There will always be those who blame people , companies and organizations for something they had nothing to do with and then try to extract money and payments from them. That's tantamount to legalized extortion.

Great thread. Lots of good insightful posts.

Me and August and others went over the car comparison a few pages ago, the thing to remember about cars though is that there have been increasing efforts over the years to make cars safer and to reduce alcohol related issues, through ad campaigns, taxes and in the cases of cars, design and material choices, as well as legislation.
Alcohol and cars were not designed to kill, a gun on the other hand....

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Me and August and others went over the car comparison a few pages ago, the thing to remember about cars though is that there have been increasing efforts over the years to make cars safer and to reduce alcohol related issues, through ad campaigns, taxes and in the cases of cars, design and material choices, as well as legislation.
Alcohol and cars were not designed to kill, a gun on the other hand....

Good point, however, cars may not be designed to kill but they do in large numbers. I missed your earlier post as well.

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..

Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?

That was my point.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?

That was my point.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"

Thread derailment
That's the same way the migration debate goes, isn't it?
/Thread derailment

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?

That was my point.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"

No one is ignoring either problem. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I.e, accountability. That's something I'm sure most in society and in this forum exercise responsibly in their lives on a daily basis.
The problem is, it seems problems and issues are taxed out of existence in the absence of an effective solution.

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

No one is ignoring either problem. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I.e, accountability. That's something I'm sure most in society and in this forum exercise responsibly in their lives on a daily basis.
The problem is, it seems problems and issues are taxed out of existence in the absence of an effective solution.

Explain to me what "self responsibility" has to do with what I complained about?
Someone initiates a debate and coincidentally, those who disagree always bring up other and non-related problems, instead of talking about the actual topic.
Why?
How is this helping anyone, how does that solve problems?

This is just something that I don't understand about people since... forever.
They do it all the time.
"Hey, I think you always put too much salt on the pasta."
"OH YEAH? WELL LAST YEAR YOU PUT TOO MUCH PEPPER ONTO SOMETHING TOO!"
"... "

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

No one is ignoring either problem. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I.e, accountability.

Answer me this as I'm not really familiar on this.

If a kid grabs his dad's gun (the licensed gun owner) and the kid goes to his school and starts a shooting and then ends his life. Is his dad going to be held accountable for not having his gun locked away safely from others?