Has anyone done this?

De Ruyter · 02-02-16, 02:53 AM

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission. I send the bearing, range, ship type, estimated AOB, speed, then an updated bearing and range, and can't seem to get any hits, even on a broadside target inside 1000 yards with a spread of torpedos. Should I not update the bearing and range? Or is that what the Position Keeper is for, and should I turn that on before anything else?

Sniper297 · 02-02-16, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission. I send the bearing, range, ship type, estimated AOB, speed, then an updated bearing and range, and can't seem to get any hits, even on a broadside target inside 1000 yards with a spread of torpedos. Should I not update the bearing and range? Or is that what the Position Keeper is for, and should I turn that on before anything else?

You didn't mention the Q key, but one problem with the programming - if you hit the fire key and the tube is not open, the crew will open the outer door then fire the torpedo automatically. Which is a guaranteed miss every time, because the gyro angle at the moment the fire command is given is set, and the few seconds delay to automatically open the outer door means the target has moved.

If you're not doing it already make sure you hit the Q key to open the outer doors BEFORE doing the "final bearing and shoot".

De Ruyter · 02-02-16, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

You didn't mention the Q key, but one problem with the programming - if you hit the fire key and the tube is not open, the crew will open the outer door then fire the torpedo automatically. Which is a guaranteed miss every time, because the gyro angle at the moment the fire command is given is set, and the few seconds delay to automatically open the outer door means the target has moved.

If you're not doing it already make sure you hit the Q key to open the outer doors BEFORE doing the "final bearing and shoot".

Ahhh....Thank you. I knew nothing about that. I kind of wondered about the doors, because as realistic as SH4 was, I was a bit surprised that they did not have a torpedo door thing, turns out it was only my ignorance. No need to be surprised after all. I will try that. That also explains the delay from when I hit the button and when the torpedoman says, "Torpedo in the water". Does it open the door only for the selected tube, or for all the tubes?

Sniper297 · 02-02-16, 02:57 PM

Only for the selected tube. I generally set speed and depth then hit Q (open outer door) then W (switch to next tube) and repeat until all the tubes I intend to shoot are set and open when the target is still 5000+ yards away. I also set the AOB to 80 (or whatever it looks like it will be at the moment of firing) when they're still 3000 yards or so, since you won't have time to do it at closer range - the AOB changes slowly at long range but too quickly to keep up with at close range.

Personally I use the auto open = false hack;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...00&postcount=3

So I don't waste torpedoes, if the outer door isn't already open the tube won't fire.

Majestik 909 · 02-02-16, 05:48 PM

I never attack from more than 600 meters....

Majestik 909 · 02-02-16, 09:35 PM

Woodenboat - approach is everything. When I see a convoy, several miles away, I begin my set-up immediately. I try to approach at a 45 degree angle to the target, slightly ahead and I favor a starboard side attack to a port side attack if given the choice. I run surfaced at flank speed for as long as possible. Often approaching decks awash. I generally submerge at around 5,000 meters from target.

As you approach, keep adding rudder as needed to stay on an angular path to the target and keep closing up the distance.

By 1,000 meters (roughly the same unit as a yard) I already have chosen my target and plotted my initial solution. On tankers, I set depth at around 10 feet. On smaller vessels and destroyers 6 feet is my depth setting. I usually attack the first two ships in the convoy, then circle around and attack the remaining ships head-on.

Many would attack the last two ships first. However, I have found that by doing so, you are often out-paced by the remaining ships. Attacking the lead ships allows you to converge on an approaching target at a high rate of combined closing speed.

Many will try to set up a "ladder" style approach, shooting through a convoy, at multiple targets, as it passes by. I believe this method to yield a higher percentage of misses than manuvering and engaging from 400 meters.

Escorts will always come out to meet you if they detect you. My approach is the same for escorts as it is unescorted convoys only I will fire upon the lead escort from around 600 meters. If there are 4 destroyers or less, I will often sink all of them first and then prey on the unescorted vessels.

If msny destroyers are present, I will then generally penetrate the convoy and hang out around a slow moving freighter and use it as a shield will attacking other ships. For example, if a destroyer is on the port side, I will cross beneath and attack targets on the freighter's starboard side and the cross back beneath it.

Some of the American boats have acoustic torpedoes. If this is the case, then perhaps a rear approach on a similar bearing would give you good results.

Don't be afraid of escorts. Even with TMO they can still be destroyed with relative ease. As long as you have ship's afloat, you have a way to play hide and seek with them.

If you are in the open ocean, evading tactics are important to master. Depth and course changes are the key. Once contact is lost, destroyers will often go dead slow or dead stop to try and re-engage. Take advantage of a stationary escort. Approach at 1/3 and go for a broadside shot. Once they are moving, dead ahead or dead astern is a good method of killing them.

Additionally, be sure to watch your stern during an attack. I have had escorts circle around while I am on approach. I have sank many with a stern tube shot into the bow.

Circle around a stricken ship and be quick to attack any vessel approaching to effect a rescue.

I cannot stress enough to use other ship's as cover. Never take on an escort in open water if it is not absolutely necessary.

Playing peek-a-boo works.....

Good luck and good hunting - U-847

Aktungbby · 02-03-16, 10:22 AM

Raptor82! & Fatbooboo!

Red Devil · 02-04-16, 07:06 PM

My point is to ignore any harbour photo recces. The game does not penalise you and they are a waste of time. Go to a locale nearby and go sinking the darn ships.

For reality sake, try them out but success is less than about 30%. And it also depends on level of difficulty. Either way, ignore them.

woodenboat · 02-12-16, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Devil

My point is to ignore any harbour photo recces. The game does not penalise you and they are a waste of time. Go to a locale nearby and go sinking the darn ships..

Absolutely!! I did a recon mission a night or two ago and took photos of everything in the harbor, including one of those Kawanishi Mavis seaplanes that was sitting in there. I had already shot the destroyers off of my tail on my way in. (I'm getting rather good at that now.) So, I knew there wouldn't be any interference from them while I took my photos. I got to thinking, "What the heck do I need to do a recon for when I can just sink everything in sight?"

So I did. I even surfaced and shot up that Mavis. It felt good.

I'm glad that Mavis is just made up of pixels because otherwise, it would break my heart to shoot up such a cool airplane.

Majestik 909 · 02-13-16, 02:27 PM

Nice work!

Majestik 909 · 02-02-16, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the button and it is hard, and this is just the training mission. I send the bearing, range, ship type, estimated AOB, speed, then an updated bearing and range, and can't seem to get any hits, even on a broadside target inside 1000 yards with a spread of torpedos. Should I not update the bearing and range? Or is that what the Position Keeper is for, and should I turn that on before anything else?

I assume you speak of American boats...my son likes the American boats, so this is how he does it. Start position keeper on initial approach. Use the red 'S' button to lock target. Approach to less than 1000 yards - I attack between 400 and 600, but a German torpedo arms quicker, so i can move in closer. Try this and see.

woodenboat · 02-02-16, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission.

Right now, I can ONLY get any sort of success in this game with my aiming set on automatic. I've read the manual, watched all the tutorials on YouTube about how to do it manually and REALLY, the manual method looks genuinely fun. But I've had this sim for less than one week and I am just not getting it all yet. I Know that I will eventually learn it all and I will spend many hours getting lost in this great simulation. But until then, I am using automatic aiming in my career games. I am manually targeting ships in the quick missions and I'm dying and dying and dying... ad nauseum.

Early in one of my games I discovered the Q key quite by accident. I bumped the key inadvertently and then I saw what it did. Suddenly I realized why my boat was taking so darn long to fire off a torpedo. But no more now. However, I also got to thinking that it would only make sense that the torpedo door would need to be closed for the crew to reload. So, the next time they crew reloaded, I tried and Q key and sure enough, I opened the door. So remember that the door closes for reloading. And it does NOT tell you that it is closing. I'm gonna have to slap some of my crew members around for not keeping me in the loop - such as that one dude that's supposed to tell when I pass the thermocline but he doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majestik 909

I never attack from more than 600 meters....

Interesting... As the Mexicans would say: "Tu tienes huevos grandes, chico."

Majestik 909 · 02-02-16, 09:01 PM

Distance compounds error and affords a target time to see/hear a torpedo and take evasive action.

dashyr · 02-03-16, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission. I send the bearing, range, ship type, estimated AOB, speed, then an updated bearing and range, and can't seem to get any hits, even on a broadside target inside 1000 yards with a spread of torpedos. Should I not update the bearing and range? Or is that what the Position Keeper is for, and should I turn that on before anything else?

If your using the ingame speed estimate it might be your problem. They tend to screw up the speed a lot. The speed of the destroyer in the training range is 10 knots if i remember well. You can also put a mark on the map where the target is then wait 1:37m and make another mark on him. If the distance between marks is 250y . multiply it by 2 and it becomes 500. well its 5 knots baby! also the aob is as the TARGET sees you and not as YOU see the target. That could be your problem too.

woodenboat · 02-03-16, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dashyr

You can also put a mark on the map where the target is then wait 1:37m and make another mark on him. If the distance between marks is 250y . multiply it by 2 and it becomes 500. well its 5 knots baby! also the aob is as the TARGET sees you and not as YOU see the target. That could be your problem too.

THANK YOU! This is excellent information! Since I'm brand new, I still have not mastered manual aiming. So, I've been playing with automatic aiming just to get familiar with the other aspects of the game. But I have badly needed to have some sort of reasonable estimate of my opponent's speed. I mean... how else do you know where to position yourself for a clean shot? Up until now, I've been taking a SWAG at it and often i find myself spending way too much time chasing a target that turns out to be outrunning me. Very frustrating. (BTW, SWAG means "super wild ass guess.")

THEREFORE, looking at your 1:37m formula, let me ask if this would also work? Watching the target for 3:14m would tell us the speed without having to multiply by two - right? Or should I STILL multiply by two? So, if a target travels 1200 yards in 3 minutes and 14 seconds, he's going 12 knots. Am I correct on this? If I am correct, this means that, if I am underwater and my target is crossing my bow at 12 knots, I might just as well let him go and wait for a juicier target because I likely cannot put on enough speed to get ahead for a clean shot. In one game, I was chasing down a couple of potential targets without this knowledge. I found myself in an absolutely perfect targeting position .... FOR THEM TO SHOOT ME! It turned out to be a pair of destroyers and I did not survive. This was also before I learned to recognize between black sonar echos and blue sonar echos. You learn real fast when you're constantly getting killed.

I think I should still multiply by two. 250 yards in 1:37 is the same is 500 yards in 3:14. Jeeze I really am NOT good with math.

02-02-16, 02:53 AM	#1
De Ruyter Seaman Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 35 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission. I send the bearing, range, ship type, estimated AOB, speed, then an updated bearing and range, and can't seem to get any hits, even on a broadside target inside 1000 yards with a spread of torpedos. Should I not update the bearing and range? Or is that what the Position Keeper is for, and should I turn that on before anything else? __________________ A collision at sea can ruin your entire day. - Thucydides

02-02-16, 05:48 PM	#5
Majestik 909 Planesman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: California Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I never attack from more than 600 meters.... __________________ Previous Kommandant U-196 - 400,317 GRT - Current Kommandant U-847 - 592,000 GRT - Monsun Gruppe 33 - Codename - Majestik - "Kommen flach! Alles ruhig! Machen umdrehungen für zwei knoten! Bis periskop!!!"

02-02-16, 09:35 PM	#6
Majestik 909 Planesman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: California Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Woodenboat - approach is everything. When I see a convoy, several miles away, I begin my set-up immediately. I try to approach at a 45 degree angle to the target, slightly ahead and I favor a starboard side attack to a port side attack if given the choice. I run surfaced at flank speed for as long as possible. Often approaching decks awash. I generally submerge at around 5,000 meters from target. As you approach, keep adding rudder as needed to stay on an angular path to the target and keep closing up the distance. By 1,000 meters (roughly the same unit as a yard) I already have chosen my target and plotted my initial solution. On tankers, I set depth at around 10 feet. On smaller vessels and destroyers 6 feet is my depth setting. I usually attack the first two ships in the convoy, then circle around and attack the remaining ships head-on. Many would attack the last two ships first. However, I have found that by doing so, you are often out-paced by the remaining ships. Attacking the lead ships allows you to converge on an approaching target at a high rate of combined closing speed. Many will try to set up a "ladder" style approach, shooting through a convoy, at multiple targets, as it passes by. I believe this method to yield a higher percentage of misses than manuvering and engaging from 400 meters. Escorts will always come out to meet you if they detect you. My approach is the same for escorts as it is unescorted convoys only I will fire upon the lead escort from around 600 meters. If there are 4 destroyers or less, I will often sink all of them first and then prey on the unescorted vessels. If msny destroyers are present, I will then generally penetrate the convoy and hang out around a slow moving freighter and use it as a shield will attacking other ships. For example, if a destroyer is on the port side, I will cross beneath and attack targets on the freighter's starboard side and the cross back beneath it. Some of the American boats have acoustic torpedoes. If this is the case, then perhaps a rear approach on a similar bearing would give you good results. Don't be afraid of escorts. Even with TMO they can still be destroyed with relative ease. As long as you have ship's afloat, you have a way to play hide and seek with them. If you are in the open ocean, evading tactics are important to master. Depth and course changes are the key. Once contact is lost, destroyers will often go dead slow or dead stop to try and re-engage. Take advantage of a stationary escort. Approach at 1/3 and go for a broadside shot. Once they are moving, dead ahead or dead astern is a good method of killing them. Additionally, be sure to watch your stern during an attack. I have had escorts circle around while I am on approach. I have sank many with a stern tube shot into the bow. Circle around a stricken ship and be quick to attack any vessel approaching to effect a rescue. I cannot stress enough to use other ship's as cover. Never take on an escort in open water if it is not absolutely necessary. Playing peek-a-boo works..... Good luck and good hunting - U-847 __________________ Previous Kommandant U-196 - 400,317 GRT - Current Kommandant U-847 - 592,000 GRT - Monsun Gruppe 33 - Codename - Majestik - "Kommen flach! Alles ruhig! Machen umdrehungen für zwei knoten! Bis periskop!!!" Last edited by Majestik 909; 02-02-16 at 09:41 PM.

02-03-16, 10:22 AM	#7
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,138 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! Raptor82! & Fatbooboo! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

02-04-16, 07:06 PM	#8
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,541 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 0	My point is to ignore any harbour photo recces. The game does not penalise you and they are a waste of time. Go to a locale nearby and go sinking the darn ships. For reality sake, try them out but success is less than about 30%. And it also depends on level of difficulty. Either way, ignore them. __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

02-02-16, 02:57 PM	#4
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Only for the selected tube. I generally set speed and depth then hit Q (open outer door) then W (switch to next tube) and repeat until all the tubes I intend to shoot are set and open when the target is still 5000+ yards away. I also set the AOB to 80 (or whatever it looks like it will be at the moment of firing) when they're still 3000 yards or so, since you won't have time to do it at closer range - the AOB changes slowly at long range but too quickly to keep up with at close range. Personally I use the auto open = false hack; http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...00&postcount=3 So I don't waste torpedoes, if the outer door isn't already open the tube won't fire.

02-13-16, 02:27 PM	#10
Majestik 909 Planesman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: California Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Nice work! __________________ Previous Kommandant U-196 - 400,317 GRT - Current Kommandant U-847 - 592,000 GRT - Monsun Gruppe 33 - Codename - Majestik - "Kommen flach! Alles ruhig! Machen umdrehungen für zwei knoten! Bis periskop!!!"

02-02-16, 09:01 PM	#13
Majestik 909 Planesman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: California Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Distance compounds error and affords a target time to see/hear a torpedo and take evasive action. __________________ Previous Kommandant U-196 - 400,317 GRT - Current Kommandant U-847 - 592,000 GRT - Monsun Gruppe 33 - Codename - Majestik - "Kommen flach! Alles ruhig! Machen umdrehungen für zwei knoten! Bis periskop!!!"