Who Started World War II?

Originally Posted by Joefour

Here, here! I've been following this thread this morning and all I see is that these people are not allowing this man to make his points with their slings and arrows coming from all directions.

Oh please. He doesn't make any points! He makes claims and promotes absurd beliefs and the people don't fall for that, that's all!

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Oh please. He doesn't make any points! He makes claims and promotes absurd beliefs and the people don't fall for that, that's all!

You aren't allowing him to make any points. I for one, want to hear what he has to say!

[Rockin Robbins]

Benito Mussolini started the war. He was the model for the autocratic, insane monster that Germany became. Since rabid dogs cannot be reasoned with they must be killed. Germany was and deservedly so. They are better for it today.

[Captain Jack Tar]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Yeah, the French had really an indecisive attitude during the war. Unfortunately, they didn't understand at all that Hitler didn't want to have a revenge against France, but an united and powerful Europe. And the English were the ennemies of this alliance, as they constantly show during the actions they led against the French fleet, and other facts. England was not the ally of France, but its rival.

Poland invaded then Holland followed by all the low countries,Norway and Denmark fell next and Finland got squashed between two rivals with France split in two and Spain an Italy both pro Hitler.

Of course Britain started the war now i see it! Doh!

[mapuc]

The question is, as I see it, will we read his translated documents with an open mind or will we read them with our personal/political/you name it-filter ?

I'll try to read them with an open mind.

Markus

[MLF]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The question is, as I see it, will we read his translated documents with an open mind or will we read them with our personal/political/you name it-filter ?

I'll try to read them with an open mind.

Markus

I'd be very surprised to see any translations - there is a lot of material in the list of books etc Fahnenbohn provided. However, in the list is " 100 Documents relatifs à l’histoire des origines de la guerre (édité par le Service d’Informations allemand, Berlin, s.d.). I searched in Google for
"100 Documents Relative to the history of the origin of the war" and there is a site that has a .pdf of this document in English from the German Foreign Office of the time.

I will not put the link here as I don't like the address name, but it might help explain where some of this is coming from. I have not read this fully - the opening and final sections were enough.

[Fahnenbohn]

So, World War II could have been avoided. If Poland would have not rejected all Hitler's negociation proposals, then war against Poland would never have taken place. But even after the German troops entered in Poland, peace was still possible, and the Britain and French politicians knew that : Hitler has always been ready for peaceful solutions. But for Britain, it was the proper moment for declaring war on Germany without appearing to be the aggressor. This war was not declared to save Poland, but to annihilate the German Third Reich. Who took advantage of this war except the guns manufacturers and international speculators ?



Hitler wanted peace for Europe.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for your efforts in coming to your conclusion. There are 21 hours for people to respond if they care to.

[HunterICX]

Conclussion: Cutting sentences, conveniently ignoring evidence and facts to fit your view and claiming that there is some grand allied plot that is out there to destroy German credibility by manufacturing the History as we know it.

*sigh* I've seen more plausible items on the History Channel.

Could go more into Depth but I can conclude out of the previous back and forth arguments in this thread where many pointed out some errors in your statements you simply choise to ignore them, nothing much changed apart from the fact that the same claims are just put down into a opinionated biased documents which again proof nothing.

Hitler wanted peace?
His Book tells otherwise, his speeches tells otherwise and his actions tells otherwise.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Conclussion: Cutting sentences, conveniently ignoring evidence and facts to fit your view and claiming that there is some grand allied plot

Wonderful accusatory inversion ...

In Nuremberg, the German chiefs were presented as "plotters against peace". Hello Big Brother !

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Ow look.....another holocaust denier.
Calling bluntly the survivors of the Oradour Massacre outright liars, he takes it up for the scum that is known as the Das Reich Division of the Waffen SS.

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

All sources are provided. All is verifiable. You just have to open the original books (not those written by propagandists and academics who are copying on one another, but the real historical sources), and read.

It's verifiable that it is nothing but revisionist garbage which ignores the facts, evidence and alters testimonies for their own convinience to make pethatic statements which just slaps the one who died horribly at the hands of a failed Austrian painter in the face.

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Wonderful accusatory inversion ...

Funny, it's what sums up everything you said so far.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

It's verifiable that it is nothing but revisionist garbage which ignores the facts, evidence and alters testimonies for their own convinience to make pethatic statements.

Another accusatory inversion. What you are saying has never been demonstrated. The only answer to their arguments is persecution. This is a complete admission !

The historical truth contradicts your paradigm. You are simply not able to go against that. For you, Hitler is the big bad wolf. OK, the discussion stops there with you.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

So, World War II could have been avoided. If Poland would have not rejected all Hitler's negociation proposals, then war against Poland would never have taken place. But even after the German troops entered in Poland, peace was still possible, and the Britain and French politicians knew that : Hitler has always been ready for peaceful solutions.

Hitler wanted peace for Europe.

Obersalzberg Speech August 22, 1939

Poland will be depopulated and settled with Germans. My pact with the Poles was merely conceived of as a gaining of time.


— Adolf Hitler

http://teach.yauger.net/apworld/unit...ersalzberg.pdf

Special Prosecution Book-Poland

Nearly two years before the invasion of the Second Polish Republic, between 1937 and 1939, the Sonderfahndungsbuch Polen was being secretly prepared in Germany. It was compiled by the “Zentralstelle IIP Polen” (Central Unit IIP-Poland) unit of the Geheime Staatspolizei or Gestapo ("Secret State Police") with help from the German minority living in pre-war Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...on_Book-Poland

Operation Tannenberg

Operation Tannenberg (German: Unternehmen Tannenberg) was a codename for one of the extermination actions by Nazi Germany that was directed at the Polish nationals during the opening stages of World War II in Europe

The shootings were conducted with the use of a proscription lists (Sonderfahndungsbuch Polen), compiled by the Gestapo in the span of two years before the 1939 attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenberg

Intelligenzaktion

Intelligenzaktion , intelligentsia action, was a highly secretive genocidal action of Nazi Germany against Polish elites (primarily intelligentsia; teachers, doctors, priests, community leaders etc.) in the early stages of World War II.

Once more the Führer must point out that the Poles can only have one master, and that is the German; two masters cannot and must not exist side by side; therefore all representatives of the Polish intelligentsia should be eliminated [umbringen]. This sounds harsh, but such are the laws of life.

— Adolf Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intell...on#cite_note-9

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by u crank

Obersalzberg Speech August 22, 1939

Source : From Documents on British Foreign Policy, 1919–1939, ed. E.L. Woodward and Rohan Butler, 3rd series (London: HMSO, 1954), 7:258–60.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Source : From Documents on British Foreign Policy, 1919–1939, ed. E.L. Woodward and Rohan Butler, 3rd series (London: HMSO, 1954), 7:258–60.

Meanwhile, books published by the German Foreign Office during the war are completely reliable.