The new and improved four bearings method - Page 3

potus · 08-24-12, 01:24 PM

Link doesn't work?

Kuikueg · 08-25-12, 02:24 AM

Get it from here http://lnpi.net/docs/the_four_bearings_method_v2.pdf

I'm going to update the first post.

TaTi94 · 01-02-13, 10:54 AM

@KUIKUEG
I've just installed SH4 and I'm studying your method, and it's awesome! there's just one thing, I can't get right!
I started out facing north and there was a merchant northeast from me some 15 km away, heading west. this was a training mission I created so I can practice your method in it. Anyway I got my first bearing and started cruising and changing course. In 15 minute intervals I took 3 reading and draw them as b1, b2 and b3. While I took these 3 readings I was always moving a bit towards the merchant(NNE, E, NEE) I calculated the estimated fourth bearing and I turned away from him (I was moving west just like him). What I want to ask: was this a mistake? because when I took the real fourth bearing and calculated his position and course, it was really off! like almost 90 degrees off! I know this because I created the mission!

So what kind of freedom of movement do I have? Changing course 180 degrees, I was moving away from him and I suspect that was my mistake, but the sonarman still said the merchant was CLOSING!

Fish In The Water · 01-02-13, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaTi94

@KUIKUEG...

It looks like Kuikueg hasn't been active in a couple months, but until he gets back, welcome to Subsim and have fun!

Shkval · 01-03-13, 04:45 AM

Few things about this method... it doesn't work on "moving away" and "constant distance" contact's courses, (or very close to "constant distance")... if you are moving, you should move in opposite direction of a contact, i.e. if he is moving SW you should move NE (you MUST get crossing of bearings) if you are getting parallel bearings it is impossible to get contact's course... time between bearings is also very important, the longer the better! Usually 10 minutes is enough for merchants, 5 - 7 for warships... good luck.

Kuikueg · 01-03-13, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shkval

Few things about this method... it doesn't work on "moving away" and "constant distance" contact's courses, (or very close to "constant distance")... if you are moving, you should move in opposite direction of a contact, i.e. if he is moving SW you should move NE (you MUST get crossing of bearings) if you are getting parallel bearings it is impossible to get contact's course... time between bearings is also very important, the longer the better! Usually 10 minutes is enough for merchants, 5 - 7 for warships... good luck.

To the things pointed out by Shkval I have to add:

There always are two solutions, each to each side of the triangle defined by the first three bearings, with respect to your own position. Only one of them is reasonable (normally). Be sure you compute the right one.
You can move freely as long as you keep your bearings crossing, the higher the angle the better, and you end up far from the computed fourth bearing, so your last bearing crosses the computed one on a fairly open angle.
Don't rule out that you made a mistake in the procedure. I used to make them, and I know the method inside out. It's easy to get confused when plotting inside the game.

Solve first the inconsistency between your assumed position and the sonar man report.

Pisces · 05-30-14, 05:10 AM

Kuikeg's link is dead. I uploaded version 2 to my own website:

version 1 of the method:
http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/four_bearings_method.pdf

version 2 of his methods:
http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/the_f...%20Kuikueg.pdf

pythos · 07-12-14, 06:14 PM

Doing the four bearing method, and having no luck.
The point of failure seems to be at the point when the parallels are moved to intersect Bearing 2.
Having had numerous failures in acquiring contact course I decided to try this with map contacts on and was using the TDC historical mission (one ship on a east to west coast, and the U- boat on a northerly heading.)
I used the periscope for the bearing info, and found that when I drew out the parallels on bearing 1 and 3, that the course was nearly perpendicular to the actual contact course.
Then I looked at how to acquire a predicted course line that would match the contacts East to West course, and honestly I could find none.
I have done the tutorial included in Steel Wolves for the four bearings several times, and encountered that although the tutorial is saying "we have acquired a bearing of (place bearing here), that when I clicked on the sonar operator I get "no sound contact".
In actual practice I find the sonar bearings useless (even when tracking a single contact, as the operator only reports the closest contact, and in a shipping lane that can be many instances of the closest changing during the course of acquiring four bearings over 20 minutes.
I sure wish I could get this method to work, cause if this works this will make this sim really immersive.

DieReeperbahn · 07-13-14, 08:47 AM

I've had mixed results as well. I find that you must use the highest magnification when making a plot or too much error will creep into the solution. But I just play on and assume the target changed course or speed or my WO is tired...

MCM · 01-07-16, 03:33 PM

Is there a new download link for the improved fast method? THX!

Sjizzle · 01-07-16, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCM

Is there a new download link for the improved fast method? THX!

u can train this method in game u need to have TDW's UI or TWos mega mod ....in main menu section tutorials and from there select four bearing

MCM · 01-08-16, 02:04 AM

WOW didn't know that. This is great!!! THX very much

THEBERBSTER · 01-08-16, 06:38 AM

This is a useful alternative method.
Pause your game and then use the Alt + Tab Keys.
You can enter 1 bearing at a time or best to put 3 bearings in at the same time before moving the sub.
Hydrophone Tracker For Four Bearings (Sits On Your Desktop)

Peter

WildBlueYonder · 07-05-16, 07:12 AM

One disadvantage of the method taught by TWoS is that you have to be stationary for the first three bearings. Is there a way to apply the method while moving the entire time?

alboverburn · 08-26-16, 02:52 AM

Here is my quick utility made in geogebra for the 4 bearing method.
Requires geogebra, obviously.
http://www.filedropper.com/4bearingsv5

In the near future I'll add an intercept point as well, so that you don't have to draw anything on the in-game map.
If you don't use km as an unit of measure, just modify the variable "Speed" and instead of "0.53996", put in whatever is necessary to convert from your preferred unit to knots. 1 km/h is 0.53996 knots.

Attention, sometimes the indicated target course is opposite of what it is, so you may need to add or subtract 180°.

01-02-13, 10:54 AM	#33
TaTi94 Nub Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Question @KUIKUEG I've just installed SH4 and I'm studying your method, and it's awesome! there's just one thing, I can't get right! I started out facing north and there was a merchant northeast from me some 15 km away, heading west. this was a training mission I created so I can practice your method in it. Anyway I got my first bearing and started cruising and changing course. In 15 minute intervals I took 3 reading and draw them as b1, b2 and b3. While I took these 3 readings I was always moving a bit towards the merchant(NNE, E, NEE) I calculated the estimated fourth bearing and I turned away from him (I was moving west just like him). What I want to ask: was this a mistake? because when I took the real fourth bearing and calculated his position and course, it was really off! like almost 90 degrees off! I know this because I created the mission! So what kind of freedom of movement do I have? Changing course 180 degrees, I was moving away from him and I suspect that was my mistake, but the sonarman still said the merchant was CLOSING!

01-03-13, 04:45 AM	#35
Shkval Planesman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 192 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Few things about this method... it doesn't work on "moving away" and "constant distance" contact's courses, (or very close to "constant distance")... if you are moving, you should move in opposite direction of a contact, i.e. if he is moving SW you should move NE (you MUST get crossing of bearings) if you are getting parallel bearings it is impossible to get contact's course... time between bearings is also very important, the longer the better! Usually 10 minutes is enough for merchants, 5 - 7 for warships... good luck. __________________ Come closer... and die.

05-30-14, 05:10 AM	#37
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Kuikeg's link is dead. I uploaded version 2 to my own website: version 1 of the method: http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/four_bearings_method.pdf version 2 of his methods: http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/the_f...%20Kuikueg.pdf Last edited by Pisces; 05-30-14 at 05:49 AM.

07-13-14, 08:47 AM	#39
DieReeperbahn Henke Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Mississauga Posts: 85 Downloads: 197 Uploads: 1	I've had mixed results as well. I find that you must use the highest magnification when making a plot or too much error will creep into the solution. But I just play on and assume the target changed course or speed or my WO is tired... __________________ "Water is pointed"

01-08-16, 06:38 AM	#43
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Hythe - Southampton Posts: 9,609 Downloads: 1133 Uploads: 0	This is a useful alternative method. Pause your game and then use the Alt + Tab Keys. You can enter 1 bearing at a time or best to put 3 bearings in at the same time before moving the sub. Hydrophone Tracker For Four Bearings (Sits On Your Desktop) Peter __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

08-24-12, 01:24 PM	#31
potus Seaman Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 36 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	Link doesn't work?

08-25-12, 02:24 AM	#32
Kuikueg Watch Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Spain Posts: 26 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Get it from here http://lnpi.net/docs/the_four_bearings_method_v2.pdf I'm going to update the first post.

07-12-14, 06:14 PM	#38
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Doing the four bearing method, and having no luck. The point of failure seems to be at the point when the parallels are moved to intersect Bearing 2. Having had numerous failures in acquiring contact course I decided to try this with map contacts on and was using the TDC historical mission (one ship on a east to west coast, and the U- boat on a northerly heading.) I used the periscope for the bearing info, and found that when I drew out the parallels on bearing 1 and 3, that the course was nearly perpendicular to the actual contact course. Then I looked at how to acquire a predicted course line that would match the contacts East to West course, and honestly I could find none. I have done the tutorial included in Steel Wolves for the four bearings several times, and encountered that although the tutorial is saying "we have acquired a bearing of (place bearing here), that when I clicked on the sonar operator I get "no sound contact". In actual practice I find the sonar bearings useless (even when tracking a single contact, as the operator only reports the closest contact, and in a shipping lane that can be many instances of the closest changing during the course of acquiring four bearings over 20 minutes. I sure wish I could get this method to work, cause if this works this will make this sim really immersive.

01-07-16, 03:33 PM	#40
MCM Engineer Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 210 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 0	Is there a new download link for the improved fast method? THX!

01-08-16, 02:04 AM	#42
MCM Engineer Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 210 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 0	WOW didn't know that. This is great!!! THX very much

07-05-16, 07:12 AM	#44
WildBlueYonder Mate Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 58 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	One disadvantage of the method taught by TWoS is that you have to be stationary for the first three bearings. Is there a way to apply the method while moving the entire time?

08-26-16, 02:52 AM	#45
alboverburn Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 9 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Here is my quick utility made in geogebra for the 4 bearing method. Requires geogebra, obviously. http://www.filedropper.com/4bearingsv5 In the near future I'll add an intercept point as well, so that you don't have to draw anything on the in-game map. If you don't use km as an unit of measure, just modify the variable "Speed" and instead of "0.53996", put in whatever is necessary to convert from your preferred unit to knots. 1 km/h is 0.53996 knots. Attention, sometimes the indicated target course is opposite of what it is, so you may need to add or subtract 180°. Last edited by alboverburn; 08-26-16 at 04:20 AM.