The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[ikalugin]

We hear again and again and again how Islam is the biggest threat to the western world

For that is way better than Russia being considered the biggest threat.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Why don't you like Nazis? Nazis aren't so bad. You see in 2013 560,660 people voted for the NPD in Germany. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...wahlergebnisse

However only 11,762 right wing felonies were recorded in the same year. http://www.petrapau.de/17_bundestag/...straftaten.pdf

That means even if every felony was committed by a different person only 2% of all Nazis became criminals. You see, the average Nazi is a peace loving person who doesn't like violence and is most likely even opposed to what the few criminal ones do. It's just a few radicalized ones that attack refugees, homeless, foreigners, left wing members etc. But that has nothing to do with real Nazism. Real Nazis don't like that. You see we shouldn't generalize them and allow them to build their education centers and do their parades through our cities and use all the symbols they want during protests and demonstrations. After all the vast majority don't commit any crimes. So why don't you like them?


I hope the sarcasm was clear. To me Nazism and Islam are pretty much interchangeable when it comes to turning their followers into violent zombies. Both ideologies are in my opinion totalitarian and opposed to freedom. None should have a place in the West.

But was every German a Nazi?

[Skybird]

Many Germans were no Nazis, and most Germans never strangled even a single Jew with their own hands. Still, the third Reich rose in Germany, not in another place, and Nazism and the evil of Hitler came from and by - the Germans and Austrians.

[Oberon]

Absolutely, but does that mean that all Germans and Austrians should have been killed in order to prevent the rise of Hitler?

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But was every German a Nazi?

No, but that didn't keep us from committing some of the worst crimes this planet has ever seen with most people not doing much against that may it have been because of fear or because they didn't care/know or because they actually supported it. In the end what does it matter? The ideology was capable of finding enough willing helpers just as Islam finds enough people to fuel Daesh, Boko Haram, the Taliban etc.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Absolutely, but does that mean that all Germans and Austrians should have been killed in order to prevent the rise of Hitler?

No, and I never said we were supposed to kill all Muslims. It's the ideology that's evil and must be fought in my opinion. We actively fight Nazism while inviting Islam even though both ideologies are of the same evil. You can't be for one but against the other as both are way too similar in how they want to achieve their goals and control your every day life.
How can we justify to ban the swastika but allow symbols of another totalitarian ideology with the same mindset?
To me Nazism and Islam are pretty much two sides of the same coin. Both are intrusive ideologies that claim absolute supremacy over everyone else, both want to control their followers and/or force everyone into obedience and both don't allow different opinions or else.

I want neither ideology to gain influence in my country. To me we have opened the flood gates for refugees with a mindset like in Nazi Germany around 1937.
Imagine it's 1937 and you have several million people from Nazi Germany in your country. Actually some have been there for more than 40 years. They still speak German (and often times very little or no English at all and even actively refuse to learn it), wear brown shirts with swastika arm badges, frenetically cheer for Adolf Hitler when he visits your country and greet each other with Heil Hitler.

Of course there is also a portion who in fact did manage to integrate but it's probably not much more than 50% (if that much) and even though they are 3rd generation Brits they are still named Hans and Günter.
Would you consider that a problem? I would.

However if we replace "People from Nazi Germany" with Immigrants from Islamic countries everything is cool all of a sudden and we shouldn't worry too much.


In my opinion we need to push back Islam just as much as we need to push back Nazism. We shouldn't encourage it to grow here. But that makes me a Neo Nazi, fascist, xenophobe etc.

Why are both ideologies measured with different scales?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

In my opinion we need to push back Islam just as much as we need to push back Nazism. We shouldn't encourage it to grow here. But that makes me a Neo Nazi, fascist, xenophobe etc.

Why are both ideologies measured with different scales?

Very valid points and I agree. I find it so amazing people are so afraid to offend moderate Muslims, which exposes a lot, thinking moderates pose no problems to cultures. Most moderates still live in the dark ages of women are property, no civil rights, apostates can be killed and Islam should take over the world. Islam just hasn't reformed like other religions. In almost every nation, Muslims are forming strict religious communities way outside the norm, which can be seen when someone post something as simple as an offensive cartoon... Europe is starting to feel the effects of this dark age mindset.

Of the 10 worse nations ranked on women's rights, 9 are Islamic majority or ran nations. They tell us women prefer this, we know better, it's lifelong indoctrination.

Thankfully many Muslims simply don't follow the Koran...

[ikalugin]

Apparently majority of female sex organ mutilation is done... by women. My point is that while we may find it strange (and horrible) it is still done by women and are we to pass judgements (if it is done in countries other than ours)?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

No, but that didn't keep us from committing some of the worst crimes this planet has ever seen with most people not doing much against that may it have been because of fear or because they didn't care/know or because they actually supported it. In the end what does it matter? The ideology was capable of finding enough willing helpers just as Islam finds enough people to fuel Daesh, Boko Haram, the Taliban etc.

Every ideology finds violent supporters of it, especially if you get some who encourage that violence.

No, and I never said we were supposed to kill all Muslims. It's the ideology that's evil and must be fought in my opinion. We actively fight Nazism while inviting Islam even though both ideologies are of the same evil. You can't be for one but against the other as both are way too similar in how they want to achieve their goals and control your every day life.
How can we justify to ban the swastika but allow symbols of another totalitarian ideology with the same mindset?
To me Nazism and Islam are pretty much two sides of the same coin. Both are intrusive ideologies that claim absolute supremacy over everyone else, both want to control their followers and/or force everyone into obedience and both don't allow different opinions or else.

Then tell me, how do you fight 'Islam' without fighting every single Muslim on the planet? It's like saying that you must fight Christianity, or fight Sikhism, you are going to force every single follower of that religion into the defensive, and you are going to create that holy war that the radical followers of that religion want you to create.
In short, by fighting Islam, you're doing what Daesh wants you to do.
GG.

I want neither ideology to gain influence in my country. To me we have opened the flood gates for refugees with a mindset like in Nazi Germany around 1937.
Imagine it's 1937 and you have several million people from Nazi Germany in your country. Actually some have been there for more than 40 years. They still speak German (and often times very little or no English at all and even actively refuse to learn it), wear brown shirts with swastika arm badges, frenetically cheer for Adolf Hitler when he visits your country and greet each other with Heil Hitler.

We had those, they were called followers of Oswald Mosley. The most active and virulent fascists who refused to behave were interred and those who just quietly expressed their beliefs carried on as normal.
Heck, in America a fascist owned one of their biggest car manufacturing companies, and another one was a big politician.
I don't believe it would be particularly wise to set up camps for Muslims, like Donald Trump wants to, but I have no problem with imprisoning Islamic extremists.

Of course there is also a portion who in fact did manage to integrate but it's probably not much more than 50% (if that much) and even though they are 3rd generation Brits they are still named Hans and Günter.
Would you consider that a problem? I would.

I have no problem with a third generation Brit being called Hans or Gunter, most of our names are from foreign countries anyway. My name has its origins in Hebrew I believe.

However if we replace "People from Nazi Germany" with Immigrants from Islamic countries everything is cool all of a sudden and we shouldn't worry too much.

In my opinion we need to push back Islam just as much as we need to push back Nazism. We shouldn't encourage it to grow here. But that makes me a Neo Nazi, fascist, xenophobe etc.

Why are both ideologies measured with different scales?

Probably because if all Muslims were the evil scumbags you seem to think they are then we'd be dead by now, since there are 2 billion odd of them.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Then tell me, how do you fight 'Islam' without fighting every single Muslim on the planet?

No more massive mosques. No more special rights for Muslims (they can slaughter animals here in ways that are violating our animal protection laws but religious freedom trumps animal rights...). No more mass immigration of Muslims.
Immediate deportation of radical preachers and criminals without a German passport (regardless of religion). You come to this country you follow our rules, period!
That's how I would do it. No violence. No concentration camps, no harassment for the average Muslim John Doe who just wants to get by.

It's like saying that you must fight Christianity, or fight Sikhism, you are going to force every single follower of that religion into the defensive, and you are going to create that holy war that the radical followers of that religion want you to create.

So you also think we should stop being against Nazism? After all all that you said is also perfectly applicable towards Nazism....
Same thing, two scales.

And what is the alternative? Just bending over and take it?

I don't believe it would be particularly wise to set up camps for Muslims, like Donald Trump wants to, but I have no problem with imprisoning Islamic extremists.

Trump is an idiot and setting up camps is stupid (and I've never advocated that). I do have a problem with imprisoning extremists though and that is that they will get free again after a few years. Deportation is the only solution I see for them to prevent them from doing their thing in my country.

Probably because if all Muslims were the evil scumbags you seem to think they are then we'd be dead by now, since there are 2 billion odd of them.

Read again. I've never said that all Muslims are evil scumbags, I repeatedly said that the ideology is evil. It's the same as with Nazi Germany. Not every German was/is a scumbag but the ideology that ruled the place was highly dangerous and evil and made a lot of people commit atrocities. Just like Islam.
Besides most Islamic countries lack the military power to be really dangerous. Maybe you should ask some Israelis what would happen to them if the neighboring Muslim countries had the military capacity to overrun them....

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I don't believe it would be particularly wise to set up camps for Muslims, like Donald Trump wants to

I'm no fan of Trump but he hasn't advocated putting anyone in a camp.

[Armistead]

I think the future will be tricky, religious test, freedom of speech, etc., vs. security. That old saying "he that gives up liberty for security deserves neither" .... but to abide by that, it means you go to war and destroy your enemy, not so easy with a world religion.

I've watched numerous sermons by many so called moderate clerics in the US on youtube, debates and speeches, you start getting a feeling there's more a political religious movement going on to change systems and culture with a nod and a wink, what the radicals are doing is OK... leading the way. Sure it's not true with many, but obvious it's a tight religious group. If you start religious test, then there's the slippery constitutional slope, many liberal groups would love to ban so called hate speech spouted off in Christian churches.

Obvious the big problem is inner conflict between Islam itself, the numerous sects, Shiites vs Sunni, all the war and conflict leaves so many vacuums that create terrorist movements and we often get drug into the conflict. Another thing is obvious, Islam is often the religion of punks and thugs.

Other religions reformed, while many are hateful bigots, Islam is different. In a modern world with WMDs, I'm not sure we have 500 years waiting for it to reform, maybe not even a decade.....

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by August

I'm no fan of Trump but he hasn't advocated putting anyone in a camp.

Neither did Hitler! That's what minions R 4! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Apparently majority of female sex organ mutilation is done... by women. My point is that while we may find it strange (and horrible) it is still done by women and are we to pass judgements (if it is done in countries other than ours)?

Yea, but it's the indoctrinated mindset and often they have no rights or choice to freely choose, obtain knowledge, etc. If you're convinced from birth such things are divine, people will do anything. This is how all religious systems controlled the masses for generations. The civil rights abuse and violence towards women in Islam has to be exposed. People should never suffer torture, even if they agree to it because they never got to learn any better.

[August]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Neither did Hitler! That's what minions R 4! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

All these hitler comparisons and not one person bringing up godsons law.

I guess that only applies for certain people right?

[Sailor Steve]

It's "Godwin's" Law, and given that the conversation seems to have turned to the comparing of certain ideologies it's not wholly inappropriate.

And what, specifically, only applies to certain people, and to which people?